Prom 3: 17.07.16 - Mozart, Haydn and Fauré

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But nit-picking aside, I thought the artificial repression of string tone by the OAL sounded revolting in the Fauré works, and probably unHIPP anyway. The orchestra in question didn't attempt to suppress vibrato for Rattle when they did Das Rheingold at the Proms, so it's a pity they went down this road yesterday. If you want Fauré like that, you might just as well save money and substitute the orchestra with an organ.

[edashtav]

I agree with your strictures re the choir men, gurnemanz; the tenors, in particular, who are given a superfluity of lovely lines in the Requiem, sounded tired and individual voices obtruded. The choir didn't rise to the occasion and made it sound like a gig too far. What a shame.

[Lento]

Tempi tended to be too brisk and much of music-making had a routine feel about it. In fact, it wasn't so much a performance as singing one expects during a service.

My hackles were immediately raised during the 5 minutes I heard (of the Fauré Requiem) for various reasons, chiefly that I can't see the point of performing the Kyrie as if one has a bus to catch: completely robs the music of its beauty IMV.

PS Having now heard the rest of the concert, I am pleased to say I found much to enjoy, especially in the first half. Top marks for bottle (and a pleasing rendition) to the treble soloist. I gather the boys were in robes, which must have made them most uncomfortable in the heat, Were the tenors emulating a "French sound" in the Fauré?

[Maclintick]

Unusually for me, I listened to the complete concert on the radio. (I normally dip in and out when I am not physically at a concert.) I thought the two sections of the concert balanced each other well. In both major works the choir came over well; here I think that the home listener was probably at an advantage. A small choir could easily get lost in that space, but the radio allowed it to project well.

I enjoyed most of what I heard, (esp. the Mozart) & what follows may be just an heretical, Hipp-unfriendly observation, but to my ears the KC boys were unremittingly sharp during the 1st half Haydn "Paukenmesse". Having heard SM-P say in her intro to the Faure that the OAE were re-tuning to A=440, it begs the question of whether there is wisdom in the decision to perform 2 halves of a concert at different pitches ? I claim no knowledge, in the restricted academic sense, of different tunings when applied in Hipp environments, but the thought occurs to me that there would most likely be a sprinkling of trebles with perfect pitch in this ensemble, & that this may have caused them to veer naturally towards A=440 in this acoustically-challenging space.

[subcontrabass]

Having heard SM-P say in her intro to the Faure that the OAE were re-tuning to A=440, it begs the question of whether there is wisdom in the decision to perform 2 halves of a concert at different pitches ?

Different pitch would be to accommodate the wind instruments (particularly oboes) of the different periods.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My hackles were immediately raised during the 5 minutes I heard (of the Fauré Requiem) for various reasons, chiefly that I can't see the point of performing the Kyrie as if one has a bus to catch: completely robs the music of its beauty IMV.

Whilst agreeing with you about the Kyrie, I didn't feel that way about the Cantique, which is often taken too slowly, and last night's performance was no exception. It needs to flow, but my theory for there being so many sluggish performances, is that pianists and organists tend to slow down the accompaniment (with rather a lot of notes) and they are the ones who play the introduction in rehearsal. It is understandable that this might happen in amateur performances, but surely it shouldn't happen when professionals are involved.

Which is why I like Louis Frémaux.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Different pitch would be to accommodate the wind instruments (particularly oboes) of the different periods.

No wonder musicians are hard up.

[Tony Halstead]

But nit-picking aside, I thought the artificial repression of string tone by the OAL sounded revolting in the Fauré works, and probably unHIPP anyway. The orchestra in question didn't attempt to suppress vibrato for Rattle when they did Das Rheingold at the Proms, so it's a pity they went down this road yesterday. If you want Fauré like that, you might just as well save money and substitute the orchestra with an organ.

There was nothing remotely 'revolting' (sic) about the sublime flute playing of Lisa Beznosiuk, however!
She allowed herself the romantic luxury of a lovely, ideal vibrato that managed to 'glow from within', the tone subtly pulsating in its intensity with no hint of the sickly pitch-bending that is so often used ( misused and even sometimes abused!) by many 'modern' instrumentalists.

[oddoneout]

passionate performance of Fauré, with stellar singing throughout

So The Guardian music critic liked it....
I thought the choir didn't sound well blended, especially the trebles who at times sounded tired I felt. I was caught out by the 7-00pm start and so missed the Mozart and also managed to miss the repeat today - drat.
It was not a memorable evening's listening for me, but yet again I am grateful that the opportunity exists to hear much loved music in the comfort of my living room.
BTW, am I the only one who is annoyed by the presenters trying to drown out the Prommers interjections(often with nothing of any consequence)? Back in the day we would be told what was being chanted and explanation given as appropriate, and the announcer wouldn't try and compete. Now I find myself trying to ignore the 'personality' wittering to try and make out what's happening in the RAH.

[VodkaDilc]

So The Guardian music critic liked it....
am I the only one who is annoyed by the presenters trying to drown out the Prommers interjections(often with nothing of any consequence)? Back in the day we would be told what was being chanted and explanation given as appropriate, and the announcer wouldn't try and compete. Now I find myself trying to ignore the 'personality' wittering to try and make out what's happening in the RAH.

Judging from my Proms visits over the last few years, the witty interjections from the prommers are largely a thing of the past. All we usually get now is a carefully enunciated notice about the charity collection on the way out.

[Maclintick]

Different pitch would be to accommodate the wind instruments (particularly oboes) of the different periods.

Understood. That's fine & dandy for the band, but my point about performing at different pitches in the same concert was to question whether the choir could also be "accommodated" within this HIPP arrangement. The double-reed brigade can no doubt swap instruments or whatever they do under such circumstances, but the trebles only have one set of vocal chords, &, accustomed to the fulsomely supportive acoustic of King's Chapel, may have found adjustment to the dry stage of the RAH problematic. I don't know, & crave enlightenment from those who might.

[Petrushka]

I was present at this concert, not my usual fare, I have to say but I so wanted to hear the Kings' Choir and I found much to enjoy. All of the items were new to me in concert performance as opposed to recordings and the Faure Requiem is a work I'm not greatly familiar with at all. For those who want to know such things the edition used was the 1889 version edited by Marc Rigaudiere. Lucy Crowe (a local girl, by the way) was superb in the Mozart and the Haydn received a performance I greatly liked. Roderick Williams is such a superb singer!

I feel bound to point out the often negative reviews that so many Proms performances receive on these boards and have done over the past few years tends to grate, at least with me. Could people accentuate the positive for a change? The tendency to compare the live performance with a cherished recording made under very different conditions is one I find irritating.

Also, as has been pointed out, highly negative comments regarding one of our foremost choir directors are unjust and do no credit to those saying them.

[BBMmk2]

I've heard, or watched, only the first half of this Prom and really enjoyed it, sort of the Mozart but most Forumers here, know my views by now. Looking forward to hearing the Faure requiem, though, as there have been varying reports, but I thought Cleobury did a pretty good job.

[Maclintick]

The tendency to compare the live performance with a cherished recording made under very different conditions is one I find irritating.

Also, as has been pointed out, highly negative comments regarding one of our foremost choir directors are unjust and do no credit to those saying them.

Agreed, & I have no wish to compare "recorded vs. live", nor to denigrate performers or to post "ad hominem" attacks on their director. This is distinct from speaking "as one finds" in relation to performance, which may be irritating to some, but one has to accept that messageboards such as this are "comment-driven", to adopt a horribly journalistic term.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There was nothing remotely 'revolting' (sic) about the sublime flute playing of Lisa Beznosiuk, however!
She allowed herself the romantic luxury of a lovely, ideal vibrato that managed to 'glow from within', the tone subtly pulsating in its intensity with no hint of the sickly pitch-bending that is so often used ( misused and even sometimes abused!) by many 'modern' instrumentalists.