The Proms as a festival

[PhilipT]

Perhaps the difficulty is with London, which after all remains a special case...perhaps the music should demonstrate its London connection more consistently?

No, I don't think so. Not a lot of the music at the Edinburgh Festival is distinctly Edinburgh music. The only Festival I can think of that would qualify unequivocally is Bayreuth. Flossie has convinced me that her definition of a festival is "something she experiences as a festival". As an Open University programme put it once: "If you believe that, you are a solipsist; or rather, I am a solipsist, and you are a figment of my imagination.".

[Flosshilde]

Well, you know, I am a figment of your imagination

[LHC]

Perhaps the difficulty is with London, which after all remains a special case...perhaps the music should demonstrate its London connection more consistently?

The 'problem' with London (if indeed it is a 'problem') is that it is so big, and there is so much going on all the time, that it is almost impossible for any event or festival to take over the city in that way that Flosshilde seems to want.

I have seen similar complaints about last year's Rugby World Cup. It was well organised and very well attended and in monetary terms was probably the most successful rugby world cup so far (unless you happen to be a member of the England team), but it would have been possible to be in London at the same time it was on, and be completely unaware that it was happening at all.

The only time in recent memory that I think a single event or festival has taken over the whole city was the Olympics in 2012, when the whole of London seemed to be alive. Of course, this may be because my daily commute goes through Stratford, so the tubes I traveled on were full of spectators and athletes, and even on one occasion a gold medal winner proudly showing off her medal and posing for photos with the commuters.

[vinteuil]

The 'problem' with London (if indeed it is a 'problem') is that it is so big, and there is so much going on all the time, that it is almost impossible for any event or festival to take over the city in that way that Flosshilde seems to want.

my thoughts precisely.

The Haydn Festival in Bridgnorth, or the Early Music Festival in York, or those frightening things that go on in Huddersfield - these will always be far more 'festivals' than the Proms can be in London. London has stuff going on all the year round, the Proms is just another bit of stuff - and it has little impact on Londoners who are not disposed to be interested. It's Radio 3's involvement with it that makes it an 'event' - and as such it's a national / international event rather than a London Festival.

[Flosshilde]

I'm not denying that the Proms has many of the elements of a festival, but for me a festival should also have an impact on people who aren't directly involved, and perhap draw them in. The Olympics, and Commonwealth Games in Glasgow in 2014, are perhaps a good example of that - in Glasgow there were events in the City centre, banners, and the ticket office in George Square, the 'heart' of the city. The recent Glasgow International art festival was not such a good example - there weren't even any banners round George Square (which there usually is for most events), nothing to encourage people to get involved in it; if you didn't know about it you wouldn't know about it.

The Proms seems to generate very little excitement, if the threads here are anything to go by - mainly complaints about individual concerts, or what isn't or is being performed. It all seems rather stale. In the past (I'm thinking of the 70s & 80s) there were more adventurous concerts, late nighters, different venues (ROH & Westminster Cathedral spring to mind). Where are the fringe events, the community engagement, the feeling that it is something special, rather than jus another series of concerts performed by whatever orchestras are doing a European tour?

[ucanseetheend]

it is a "music festival" trying to be "all things to all men",(oops not very politically correct). And failing

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

it is a "music festival" trying to be "all things to all men",(oops not very politically correct). And failing

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It's Radio 3's involvement with it that makes it an 'event' - and as such it's a national / international event rather than a London Festival.

I think it should be a national festival, but in practice, it's a London festival that happens to be broadcast nationwide.

[vinteuil]

I think it should be a national festival, but in practice, it's a London festival that happens to be broadcast nationwide.

... but what might a 'national festival' look like?

Would it be like the journeying of the flame prior to the Olympics, or the various royal Jubilee or Millennium celebrations - which at least got many people 'involved' in some way? Not sure how a national music festival would work...

[Serial_Apologist]

... but what might a 'national festival' look like?

Would it be like the journeying of the flame prior to the Olympics, or the various royal Jubilee or Millennium celebrations - which at least got many people 'involved' in some way? Not sure how a national music festival would work...

Or maybe alphorn calls from valleee to valleeeee?

[Anastasius]

I know that some of the Arena prommers that go there year in year out, come rain, come shine, treat it and consider it as a festival.

[teamsaint]

it is a "music festival" trying to be "all things to all men",(oops not very politically correct). And failing

it looks and sounds to me like a festival of mainstream , core rep classical music, with some BBC twiddly bits added on.
if you take it as that, there is a lot of fun to be had, for those able or willing to make the effort to support the concerts.

Seriously, where else, if you are prepared to stand, can you get to see so many great performers ( and so much great music) for so little money ?
there IS something of a festival atmosphere amongst prommers, IMO.

It may not be perfect, but it would leave an awfully big hole if it wan't there.

I don't think it fails in what it sets out to do. It fails, if anything, in what we might like it to do.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I know that some of the Arena prommers that go there year in year out, come rain, come shine, treat it and consider it as a festival.

it looks and sounds to me like a festival of mainstream , core rep classical music, with some BBC twiddly bits added on.
if you take it as that, there is a lot of fun to be had, for those able or willing to make the effort to support the concerts.

Seriously, where else, if you are prepared to stand, can you get to see so many great performers ( and so much great music) for so little money ?there IS something of a festival atmosphere amongst prommers, IMO.
It may not be perfect, but it would leave an awfully big hole if it wan't there.

Yes - good points: there is a "festive" atmosphere for many people

I don't think it fails in what it sets out to do. It fails, if anything, in what we might like it to do.

I disagree with this, though. It fails (for me) to live up to the standards it set itself in the '60s, '70s and '80s (and the first half or so of the '90s) - what it now "sets out to do" is no longer as exciting, adventurous, or unmissable as we grew up to expect. Had the sort of repertoire featured this (and last) year had been all that it had ever offered, there wouldn't be cause for the sort of complaints I and others have been making.

[teamsaint]

I disagree with this, though. It fails (for me) to live up to the standards it set itself in the '60s, '70s and '80s (and the first half or so of the '90s) - what it now "sets out to do" is no longer as exciting, adventurous, or unmissable as we grew up to expect. Had this sort of repertoire had been all that it had ever offered, there wouldn't be cause for the sort of complaints I and others have been making.

Well, I can't disagree that it may fail to do now what it set out to do in the 60's, say. But sadly, and as you observe, it doesn't set out to do that now.
Most of us would wish the Proms different in some way. I certainly would.
Just "glass half full" thoughts !

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Just "glass half full" thoughts !

Yes - there are several concerts I'm looking forward to hearing broadcast.