The 2016 Proms Season: what are your thoughts?

[Anastasius]

Oh dear!!!!!

The vast majority of the UK has much more difficulty in getting to the RAH, so my heart doesn't exactly bleed for those suffering the tiny inconvenience cited here.

I'm surprised you think that. After all, the RAH is North of the river!

[Serial_Apologist]

Well then, if you are cycling to Peckham, make sure not to take your eyes of the bike for more than 10 secs, and then to lock it thoroughly to something unremovable - as I've discovered.

[Prommer]

Well then, if you are cycling to Peckham, make sure not to take your eyes of the bike for more than 10 secs, and then to lock it thoroughly to something unremovable - as I've discovered.

Irremovable? Sorry to peck(ham) holes.

[LHC]

Bernie in Mahler 3 caused me no little expense and inconvenience some years ago - I travelled from outside London to a performance (with the LSO I think) many years ago: the cumulative effect of his shaping of the work was overwhelming to me, and his pacing of the final peroration, with those striding timps, put me into a state of rather altered consciousness... which led me to float through the various forms of transport required after the concert, leaving all my belongings on the seat of an underground train. Money, cards, passport, driving licence &c. - all lost forever.

(You're not wrong about the tube, Ana )

If its the same performance I went to, it was in 2004 and was with the Berlin Phil. It was the culmination of Haitink's 75th birthday celebrations at the Barbican, when he also conducted Mahler's 6th with the LSO (another devastating performance) and the 9th with the Vienna Phil.

The 3rd with the BPO was one of the most overwhelming performances of any pieces I have ever attended, and as you say, the timps in the final peroration were astonishing.

In my concert and opera going history, probably only topped by Carlos Kleiber conducting Otello at the Royal Opera House.

[Serial_Apologist]

Irremovable? Sorry to peck(ham) holes.

Where's jean when you need her...

[Pulcinella]

this may help.( assuming that buses that go from Peckham also go to it !!)

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-route-maps/peckham-rye.pdf

presumably parking will be ok at the venue.

The guide offers the following useful information about car parking.
Limited parking is available on site via Cerise Road, off Hanover Park. Use the postcode SE15 5HQ for GPS devices. Paid parking is also available at Choumert Grove Car Park and on surrounding streets --- please check street signs for details.

[oddoneout]

Irremovable? Sorry to peck(ham) holes.

My old Chambers reckons it's OK. "adj. not removable: not liable to be displaced"

[EnemyoftheStoat]

lets hope they haven't organised any Peckham proms for a Millwall home " Matchday", as the trains from the safety of London Bridge station go through the heart of Lion Country.

South Bermondsey is not a place for the fainthearted on footy days.....

The last time I ventured into that football hotbed (as opposed to cycling round it on one of my weekend trundles) was the League Cup game a season or two ago (Saints winning 2-0 ), and compared with my only previous visit to Millwall FC these Lions are now pussy-cats. Anyway, Peckham Rye's far enough from the New Den for it to make little difference and in any case, I'd have my money on the Prommers in a rumble with the Lions.

[Nick Armstrong]

If its the same performance I went to, it was in 2004....

No, mine was at least 20 years before that. But I think that between us, we've established that they weren't one-offs and that BH knows how to deliver Mahler 3 like few others - and that talk of his Mahler being "stodgy in the extreme" is extreme nonsense....

[Darkbloom]

The last time I ventured into that football hotbed (as opposed to cycling round it on one of my weekend trundles) was the League Cup game a season or two ago (Saints winning 2-0 ), and compared with my only previous visit to Millwall FC these Lions are now pussy-cats. Anyway, Peckham Rye's far enough from the New Den for it to make little difference and in any case, I'd have my money on the Prommers in a rumble with the Lions.

I passed through Putney a couple of years ago on the way to see Haitink and the LSO do Mahler 4 at the Proms. I thought I'd walked into a war zone but it turned out to be Fulham v Milwall and the atmosphere was rather, ahem, tense. Some of the away supporters were amusing themselves by throwing beer at passers-by from one of the local pubs.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Two of Bowie's best, and two of the most pointless orchestral pieces ever committed to paper.

[teamsaint]

The last time I ventured into that football hotbed (as opposed to cycling round it on one of my weekend trundles) was the League Cup game a season or two ago (Saints winning 2-0 ), and compared with my only previous visit to Millwall FC these Lions are now pussy-cats. Anyway, Peckham Rye's far enough from the New Den for it to make little difference and in any case, I'd have my money on the Prommers in a rumble with the Lions.

Ah, you are clearly made of stern stuff, Stoatfoe.

I was there for the League game in the promotion season when we won with two late penalties.

They let us out about half past eight.

actually, sensible point alert ,what a good opportunity to take in a visit to the George in Borough High st, on the way to the Proms.

I'm tempting myself now......

[Darkbloom]

Well, indeed - but it would certainly help if the Beeb would widen the range of ensembles invited to perform at the Proms, too. If the same old same old conductors and ensembles are invited, the same old sort of repertoire will inevitably be reproduced year after year. (And two of the most exciting works from living composers have been brought to the Proms in the past five years from visiting, German orchestras - the only time Rebecca Saunders' Music has been heard at the Proms was thanks not to the BBC deciding it was about time her work was featured, but because German Musicians believe in her work.)

There's always going to be a fair proportion of concerts given over to one or other of the BBC orchestras, obviously. The majority of the new, or fairly new works, will be given by them to polite applause and mostly forgotten thereafter. Then you are going to get a bunch of the 'same old' conductors and ensembles who are on tour and make the Proms a stop on their itinerary. They are always a mixed bag and I have got a little tired of them myself. You didn't mention any particular names you had in mind, but I would imagine that if they were from abroad the reasons for their absence are likely to be as much for economic reasons than artistic ones. You have a home-grown outfit like the Aurora Orchestra again this year doing their bit, but there may well be lots of interesting groups on the continent who simply can't justify a one-shot gig at the Proms, and don't have the following to organise a lucrative tour. The Proms isn't likely to be confused with a Raymond Gubbay affair any time soon, thankfully, and I don't think it's accurate to portray them as mired in conservatism. I think we should remember that there was a time when Mahler 5 was new to us, and not a predictable warhorse, and there will be many people who go to a conventional programme for the first time and are experiencing these works afresh.

I must have missed the comments here "grumbling" about "a Bax cycle, or a Rubbra retrospective", Db - is this part of the annual misrepresentation of the grumblers?

Some people love to moan at this time of the year. Everyone has a list that they want to hear at the Proms and the organisers will never win. I think I read last year that one poster's cherished composers had at last made the short list...but then they complained that the organisers had programmed the wrong work! It's just all part of the fun of the Proms as far as I'm concerned.

[DracoM]

A

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

There's always going to be a fair proportion of concerts given over to one or other of the BBC orchestras, obviously. The majority of the new, or fairly new works, will be given by them to polite applause and mostly forgotten thereafter.

Indeed - it's a shame that some time, therefore, isn't given over to the sorts of composers (writing 21st Century Music for 21st Century listeners, to nick BeefO's brilliant phrase) who attract the small but enthusiastic audiences (as used to happen regularly in the '60s, '70s and '80s) rather than those whose work arouses enthusiasm in nobody.

Then you are going to get a bunch of the 'same old' conductors and ensembles who are on tour and make the Proms a stop on their itinerary. They are always a mixed bag and I have got a little tired of them myself. You didn't mention any particular names you had in mind, but I would imagine that if they were from abroad the reasons for their absence are likely to be as much for economic reasons than artistic ones. You have a home-grown outfit like the Aurora Orchestra again this year doing their bit, but there may well be lots of interesting groups on the continent who simply can't justify a one-shot gig at the Proms, and don't have the following to organise a lucrative tour.

And yet they manage to get to Huddersfield every November? (Just to refer to New Music - there's also the Baroque and Earlier Music ensembles, too.)

The Proms isn't likely to be confused with a Raymond Gubbay affair any time soon, thankfully, and I don't think it's accurate to portray them as mired in conservatism.

I didn't - I think the words that came to my mind were "dull, unadventurous, predictable". Now you may well think that these are synonyms for "conservatism", but I couldn't possibly comment. Nonetheless, I would find it very entertaining to watch anyone trying to describe the programme as anything other than "conservative".

I think we should remember that there was a time when Mahler 5 was new to us, and not a predictable warhorse

EXACTLY - and it was the adventurous programming of Glock and others who created the concerts that brought unfamiliar repertoire to the forefront of their programme-planning (just as did Wood from the earliest days). The mixture that made the Proms such a special series is what's so desperately missing from this and recent series: what's the justification of the Proms if they neglect all Music before 1600 and so much from today, time and time again? If it's just going to be what the South Bank offers as part of its usual offerings (just bunched together in a night-after-night sequence) then what's the point of the BBC using Licence Fee funds? Why not hand over to someone else and just broadcast what they come up with?

Some people love to moan at this time of the year. Everyone has a list that they want to hear at the Proms and the organisers will never win. I think I read last year that one poster's cherished composers had at last made the short list...but then they complained that the organisers had programmed the wrong work! It's just all part of the fun of the Proms as far as I'm concerned.