Prom 75: VPO/Rattle - Elgar Dream of Gerontius (11.09.15)

[VodkaDilc]

I've been thinking about what I said earlier re the traces of wobble in the semichorus possibly emanating from the more highly trained singers. It was even more apparent on Radio 3. I'm going to gamble on betting the singers involved were those from the Welsh College, sounding more like opera soloists than choristers - possibly future members of the BBC Singers

According to the programme, the members of the Semi-Chorus were from the University of Birmingham Voices. The vocal quality described by Eine Alpensinfonie was certainly evident in the upper parts; much less so with the men.

(It seems a shame that the chorus-masters from the individual choirs - CBSO, Hallé, Quay Voices, Royal Welsh College of Muisic and Drama, Ulster Youth Choir and University of Birmingham Voices - were not credited in the programme, even though they came on stage afterwards.)

[VodkaDilc]

It's a shame that the ladies weren't swapped around between two of the concerts I've attended this month: I'd love to hear Jamie Barton tackle the Angel, and I'm sure Ms.Kožená could render a passable Alto Rhapsody. By no means unenjoyable, but not quite the climax to the season I had hoped for.

Sarah Connolly was a wonderful mezzo-soprano soloist in a performance I heard in 2014.

[Mary Chambers]

I didn't hear all of this, but enjoyed what I heard of the choirs (apart from the wobbly voices noted by others here), and thought Toby Spence was.....well, all right, but strained. I had heard him and Williams in a performance under Petrenko in Liverpool not long ago. Again, I enjoyed it but was not overwhelmed.

I had forgotten that the Angel was being sung by Mrs Rattle, and wondered who on earth it was whose words were incomprehensible and whose voice was so very unsuitable. After a while it dawned on me. Madeleine Shaw in the Liverpool performance (a substitute, I think for Karen Cargill) was infinitely better.

[Hornspieler]

I didn't hear all of this, but enjoyed what I heard of the choirs (apart from the wobbly voices noted by others here), and thought Toby Spence was.....well, all right, but strained. I had heard him and Williams in a performance under Petrenko in Liverpool not long ago. Again, I enjoyed it but was not overwhelmed.

I had forgotten that the Angel was being sung by Mrs Rattle, and wondered who on earth it was whose words were incomprehensible and whose voice was so very unsuitable. After a while it dawned on me. Madeleine Shaw in the Liverpool performance (a substitute, I think for Karen Cargill) was infinitely better.

I played in two performances of this work with Heddle Nash.

For me, he was Gerontius and I would not wish to hear the part sung by anyone else.

The inscription on his gravestone is very moving:

""I went to sleep .."

HS

[Mary Chambers]

Ŷ

I played in two performances of this work with Heddle Nash.

For me, he was Gerontius and I would not wish to hear the part sung by anyone else.

The inscription on his gravestone is very moving:



HS

Oh, I wish I'd heard him!

For me, Gerontius is Peter Pears - and please, those of you who dislike him, go easy on your criticisms. I've heard them all before, and think you're just missing something that I and Benjamin Britten can hear! I go to, and have sung in, performances by others, but wouldn't want any other recording. I only have the one conducted by Britten, but have recently discovered the wonderful YouTube video of the performance with Pears, Janet Baker and John Shirley-Quirk, conducted by Boult in 1968. Now that's how to sing it.

When Pears was a young man in the Glyndebourne chorus, incidentally, he sometimes played the piano for Heddle Nash. I love all these musical connections.

[mopsus]

The Royal Welsh College did supply the semi chorus in the last live broadcast of this work on R3, last autumn, which I sang in. They didn't sound too wobbly then.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The Royal Welsh College did supply the semi chorus in the last live broadcast of this work on R3, last autumn, which I sang in. They didn't sound too wobbly then.

According to the programme, the members of the Semi-Chorus were from the University of Birmingham Voices. The vocal quality described by Eine Alpensinfonie was certainly evident in the upper parts; much less so with the men.

Clearly I pointed my finger at the wrong choir, for which I apologise.

I should have consulted my programme.

[gradus]

Ref comments about the low option on Allelujah, go to Florence Quivar in the Andrew Davis first night performance of 1991 to hear how it can (should?) sound on the higher note - stupendous singing.

[ardcarp]

I agree wholeheartedly about Heddle Nash and Pears as Gerontius. It's one heck of a part, and a tenor needs to be very sure about the durabilty of his voice before agreeing to sing it. For me, Philip Langridge (now sadly not with us) was one of the best recent Gerontiuses, very much emotionally involved in the part as he sang it. I can't think who I would vote as my fave Gerontius among the current generation of tenors. Any suggestions?

[ARBurton]

Listening via the Listen Again this morning I`m struck by the curiously low level of the actual sound - I`m having to turn up the amplifier volume far more than usual - has anyone else noticed this or do I have a setting mis-adjusted?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As I was recording the concert, I noticed just how low the levels were. The first half was OK, but I suspect the engineers were anticipating the very loud bits in Part II: the Demons' Chorus, the mighty first chord of "Praise to the Holiest" and the moment Gerontius glimpses God. It can't be easy to get this right, but I did feel they were being over-cautious.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ref comments about the low option on Allelujah, go to Florence Quivar in the Andrew Davis first night performance of 1991 to hear how it can (should?) sound on the higher note - stupendous singing.

I notice that Magdelana was fine when it came to singing A flat - just not that A.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Adcarp is right. It's a mezzo-soprano part quite definitely (apart from the fact that EE describes it as such). Therefore, it was quite permissible to push the voice into the soprano range; but having done so, EE had to be aware that not all mezzos are comfortable up there, and some mezzos are more contraltos anyway. So he wrote 'safe' notes with the option of taking the high notes if the singer could do so (his preferred singer was Muriel Foster, who could). After all, there's no reason to write 'soprano' notes as alternatives if you really want the 'mezzo' notes to be sung.

But Pab, surely what he wanted should be in big notes, with the easier, less preferred options in small? That's what's really puzzling me.

If what he really wanted was likely to prove tricky for the voice-type he'd selected, surely he'd either picked the wrong voice or the wrong key?

[jonfan]

I played in two performances of this work with Heddle Nash.

For me, he was Gerontius and I would not wish to hear the part sung by anyone else.

The inscription on his gravestone is very moving:



HS

Agree totally with HS. I joined the Huddersfield Choral the same year Sargent died [both events don't carry the same weight] My first D of G was a memorial performance with a young David Willcocks conducting and an even younger Robert Tear as the tenor. Of all the performances I've been involved with since, the nearest to HN was Maldwyn Davies. I don't think he recorded the work. It was a joy to see the young members of the chorus excitedly taking pictures of the very long queue waiting to hear them. They and and the VPO were the stars last night. There were two spine tingling moments from my seat in the front stalls: the warm sound of the VPO in the prelude and the chorus at the 'Praise' blaze. Rattle paid a lot of attention to the violas on his right and what stunning, low, sonorous sounds were produced. TS produced some ugly notes low down but was thrilling in the big moments. MK thought she was in an opera and and had her arms widespread most of the time as though she intended to embrace everyone. The piece just didn't suit her. It is very devout and IMO all the action is in the music; maybe she was trying to put in a bit of a Peter Sellars drama re the St Matthew? The choir made a beautiful sound throughout and any wobble from the semi-chorus didn't reach me.[They should have had a separate bow] Youth prevented the final umph when needed, especially from the men, but how encouraging for the future that young people are as excited to sing this music as I was when their age.

[ardcarp]

Richard Lewis sang Gerontius on an old recording with Barbirolli and the Halle. I haven't got it. Does anyone know it and can they comment on it?