Prom 75: VPO/Rattle - Elgar Dream of Gerontius (11.09.15)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Richard Lewis sang Gerontius on an old recording with Barbirolli and the Halle. I haven't got it. Does anyone know it and can they comment on it?

Best there is, IMO - though Britten runs it close. Barbirolli, Baker. Lewis, the Hallé and the choir are all superb, the recorded sound is excellent (I don't really think I need to add "for its age") and I'm not as put off by Kim Borg's English as others seem to be. Strongly recommended.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But Pab, surely what he wanted should be in big notes, with the easier, less preferred options in small? That's what's really puzzling me.

It may be Novello rather than Elgar who decided which notes should be marked as Ossias in the Vocal Score: in the Study Score, it's the higher notes that are full-sized, the lower ones marked as optional.

If what he really wanted was likely to prove tricky for the voice-type he'd selected, surely he'd either picked the wrong voice or the wrong key?

Listen to Janet Baker with Barbirolli - no problem with the top notes; and this shows Elgar chose exactly the right type of voice and the perfect key for the moment.

EDIT: Oops! Whilst it is indeed true that the Study Score has the lower notes as ossias, the climactic "Allelujah" top A is a small note ossia - the larger note heads double the first violins' line in going down to an E. Apologies - again, it may be the publishers' decision rather than the composer's, or an "English" moment of not wanting to be "vulgar" - either way, Baker shows how wonderfully "right" the top note is: as do the singers who go with the lower note!

(My one dread concerning somebody finding a recording of a Barbirolli/Ferrier recording is discovering she does the lower note: she managed a top A for Britten's Lucretia.)

[Nick Armstrong]

Well 20 hours or so after leaving the RAH after this concert, time for an up-sum...

First of all, as ever in the Royal Bathroom, seating position colours the experience (as others have said). This time, we were sitting due north of the podium, row 3 of the stalls on the aisle directly opposite the stage.



From that perspective, this powerful evening was all about the orchestra and the choir... both were revelatory in terms of sensitivity, detail, accuracy, beauty and the bringing-out of hitherto unheard lines and nuances (in a piece I think I know very well). Entrancing, and all credit to S'Simon for leading and shaping a gripping performance in those departments. The richness of the orchestral passages, especially when underpinned by the organ which came over a treat in those seats, was extraordinary - the introductions to both parts, the 'Softly and gently' music... Doesn't get much better than that.

But...

The problem this evening in the hall - though it could of course have been where I was sitting - was the soloists, though less so with Roderick Williams.

I agree, like Vodka, King_Ouf and others. Williams was fine but that beautiful voice is not quite commanding enough for the rôle/s as I hear them. Still, you could hear it all, and it was good and true.

But Toby Spence - from t'other side of the room, as I say - sounded as if he was singing inside a box or a bottle, that was preventing us hearing him in the same acoustic as everyone else. He seemed to nail the big moments, but one had the odd sense that it was happening next door.

Lady Rattle looked the part - stunning winged white dress (i.e. winglike extensions* hanging from the arms, which flapped as she gesticulated) - but as others have said, the manner, the diction, the inaudibility lower down the register: not great. She seemed to have a problem with the 'a' vowel ("in the nerrow way" ... "es a ray") and I could have done without the rather unangelical, "because you're worth it" tossing of the hair.

Nothing of the pathos a Baker could bring... although to be fair, she did at least deliver a beautiful and comprehensible 'Softly and gently.....', building on the beauty of the orchestra, using the best register of her voice without mannerism. For that at least, much thanks.

So overall... I'm broadly in agreement with KOI below, but was perhaps fortunate in sitting in a spot where the choir came over much better than in the side stalls, it seems - and hence the enjoyable bits were more intensely so, for me...

Back from the hall and having had a couple of hours to collect my thoughts (but not having listened to the broadcast yet), I feel it was a broadly satisfying but flawed performance. The orchestra and Roderick Williams should take the plaudits, with Sir Simon and Toby Spence highly commended. The choir lacked that bit of heft, as VodkaDilc said, and Mrs.Rattle was mostly unintelligible (and I was in the side stalls barely 40 feet away from her). ...By no means unenjoyable, but not quite the climax to the season I had hoped for.

*

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Richard Lewis sang Gerontius on an old recording with Barbirolli and the Halle. I haven't got it. Does anyone know it and can they comment on it?

I agree with Ferney. It may be "old' chronologically, but you'd never know by listening to it. Of the three singers, Kim Borg sometimes comes in for a bit of stick because of his non-English accent, but it hardly matters. It's even better recorded than the Britten, which overloads at climaxes.

[mercia]

blimey - is one allowed to take photos during the performance ? - or was she juggling invisible balls before kick-off ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

blimey - is one allowed to take photos during the performance ? - or was she juggling invisible balls before kick-off ?

Just remember to switch off the flash.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Toby Spence did sound as though he had a bit of a dry throat both on Tuesday and Friday.

[Nick Armstrong]

blimey - is one allowed to take photos during the performance ? - or was she juggling invisible balls before kick-off ?

Press photo, accompanying this review

[Flosshilde]

[COLOR="#0000FF"] Lady Rattle ... as others have said, the manner, the diction, the inaudibility lower down the register: not great. She seemed to have a problem with the 'a' vowel ("in the nerrow way" ... "es a ray") and I could have done without the rather unangelical, "because you're worth it" tossing of the hair.

Nothing of the pathos a Baker could bring... *

I always thought - having heard Janet Baker live, broadcast & on disc, that she made a wonderful sound, but was completely unintelligable.

[Petrushka]

I was sitting directly above you, Caliban, in the Grand Tier box 16 seat 9. Unfortunately, a pillar slightly obscured my view of the stage but the sound was excellent. I had no problem in hearing any of the soloists but do agree with the caveats mentioned about Kozena. The chorus came across with plenty of volume to me but the Vienna Philharmonic were simply magnificent, sounding as if the music had been written for them. The lady next to me in the adjacent box slept soundly through the whole thing.

In short, one of the great Proms and one I'll remember for a long time.

[antongould]

Can I just, in this probably totally inappropriate place, thank all the members who year after year go to the Proms and pen wonderful reviews for the rest of us the great non-attenders. From ferretfancy to teamsaint and all those in between a heart felt thank you - it is very much appreciated ...........

[Flosshilde]

It's a dirty job ...

[Alison]

Can I just, in this probably totally inappropriate place, thank all the members who year after year go to the Proms and pen wonderful reviews for the rest of us the great non-attenders. From ferretfancy to teamsaint and all those in between a heart felt thank you - it is very much appreciated ...........

[EdgeleyRob]

[, this powerful evening was all about the orchestra and the choir... both were revelatory in terms of sensitivity, detail, accuracy, beauty and the bringing-out of hitherto unheard lines and nuances (in a piece I think I know very well). Entrancing, and all credit to S'Simon for leading and shaping a gripping performance in those departments. The richness of the orchestral passages, especially when underpinned by the organ which came over a treat in those seats, was extraordinary - the introductions to both parts, the 'Softly and gently' music... Doesn't get much better than that.

This is the performance I heard at home and the soloists didn't come across half as bad as is being reported from the hall.
Perhaps you didn't have to be there,which is why I started the other thread

[EdgeleyRob]

I was sitting directly above you, Caliban, in the Grand Tier box 16 seat 9. Unfortunately, a pillar slightly obscured my view of the stage but the sound was excellent. I had no problem in hearing any of the soloists but do agree with the caveats mentioned about Kozena. The chorus came across with plenty of volume to me but the Vienna Philharmonic were simply magnificent, sounding as if the music had been written for them. The lady next to me in the adjacent box slept soundly through the whole thing.

In short, one of the great Proms and one I'll remember for a long time.

Me too.