Prom 75: VPO/Rattle - Elgar Dream of Gerontius (11.09.15)

[bluestateprommer]

If the VPO's playing of Nimrod this evening (as an encore) is anything to go by, we have a treat indeed in store for Gerontius.

Indeed so, now that Part 1 has just completed. Tremendous work from the VPO, where I noted the particularly deep tone of the violas (or what I take to be the violas through ear buds). Outstanding choir work, and Toby Spence and Roderick Williams on strong form. Nice to hear the rock-star applause for the musical forces at the start.

[Alison]

Why do we need an interval?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Why do we need an interval?

So the RAH can make money. There was no interval in Birmingham.

[Alison]

So the RAH can make money. There was no interval in Birmingham.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It was all going so well until the Demons' Chorus - nothing wrong with the performance, but the over-cautious sound engineers dropped the sound levels to a ridiculously low levels, so that when the Angel came in, it was barely audible.

Badly done, BBC engineers.




But well done, BBC, for giving us this concert, and so many others.

[bluestateprommer]

It was all going so well until the Demons' Chorus - nothing wrong with the performance, but the over-cautious sound engineers dropped the sound levels to a ridiculously low levels, so that when the Angel came in, it was barely audible.

I wondered about that for a moment. I will admit that I tweaked my own earbud levels down a bit, but also had some background noise through earbuds (don't ask). True, MK has some English diction issues, but for singing in a tricky language not her own, she was fine overall. Her English is infinitely better than my Czech, for sure.

(Plus, for those concerned about the nepotism thing, given how much of a strain it can be for any couple with careers that don't give the partners a lot of quality time with each other, especially in classical music, any engagement that allows a devoted couple to spend time together is good for their relationship. As well, on the question of an interval, any club owner will tell you that they rarely make money on the band and ticket sales, but rather on the bar and concessions.)

[EdgeleyRob]

Oh lordy!!

The performance transcended the slight technical problems with sound.

Astonishing,best thing I've heard at this years Proms.

[LeMartinPecheur]

40+ years ago as a student with some sort of bass voice I went to the first few choral rehearsals of D of G but didn't get through to the performance So tonight I had a vocal score to hand and followed it through Pt II. Was amazed by the way vast numbers of Elgar's detailed tempo and dynamic markings were completely passed over by soloists, choir and orchestra - poco rit's, cresc's , dim's, dynamic hairpins etc etc. (I may be prejudiced but thought Roddie Williams was the one trying hardest to observe them where he could...)


When I dared to point this out at the end and said that IIRC, J Baker, Barbirolli etc etc were much more faithful to the markings, Mrs LMP said that she's always found that performance a bit overdone If I hadn't being following the score I'd probably have thought that tonight's performance was the bee's knees.

Does this reflect a parting of the ways between us and Elgar's own time - we just can't any more take the level of emotional coloration that he wanted/ expected/ marked into the score?

[Bought a copy of Britten's recording the other day, not yet spun. Will be v interested to see how closely he observes all these detailed inflections...]

Was also interested by the fact that Kozena took all the low alternatives in her part (the ones in bigger notes in the Novello vocal score). Into my score I've written that in the 6/55 Gramophone there was a letter from Astra Desmond saying that EE preferred the higher (small-note) alternatives. Toby Spence took all the higher-note alternatives and these to me sounded right, but again they are the small-note alternatives. Alas, I've sent my 6/55 Gramophone to the tip and can't recall if Desmond gave any explanation of why EE's preferences are in the small notes. Can anyone elucidate?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oh lordy!!

The performance transcended the slight technical problems with sound.

I suppose, having heard the impact of the 300-strong chorus in Birmingham, I wanted to experience the same tonight.

[ardcarp]

EE's preferences are in the small notes. Can anyone elucidate?

Probably because the big notes lie more easily within the singer's range...and they are taxing parts. But if they can go for the higher version, that's Elgar's preference....maybe?

Years ago I sang in a performance directed by a formidable woman conductor who, pulled the tempi about all over he place and elicited Elgarian slides from the strings. We grimaced at the time (Elgar being less fashionable then than now) but on reflection, she was true to a long gone Edwardian style.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I've been thinking about what I said earlier re the traces of wobble in the semichorus possibly emanating from the more highly trained singers. It was even more apparent on Radio 3. I'm going to gamble on betting the singers involved were those from the Welsh College, sounding more like opera soloists than choristers - possibly future members of the BBC Singers .
The Britten recording has the Choir of King's College Cambridge for its semi-chorus, and the LSO Chorus for the main body of singers. This is the right way round, but it was reversed in tonight's concert. A pity, because the BBC Proms Youth Chorus is potentially brilliant.

[Prommer]

It was all going so well until the Demons' Chorus - nothing wrong with the performance, but the over-cautious sound engineers dropped the sound levels to a ridiculously low levels, so that when the Angel came in, it was barely audible.

Badly done, BBC engineers.




But well done, BBC, for giving us this concert, and so many others.

Need to listen on the iplayer to this...

The problem this evening in the hall - though it could of course have been where I was sitting - was the soloists, though less so with Roderick Williams. Mr Spence did not have the volume and his voice was worn or tired at points though he did not crack as such. Lady Rattle was in front of a music stand, and was not so much operatic in style as ill at ease. She seemed to have no self-possession or confidence, at least in this work. Both of them were underpowered and neither ideal for their roles. He did not act with his voice in a convincing manner for Gerontius and she was at sea, and with occasional American vowels.

I may be mistaken but by part II, two extra microphones had been placed on the forestage in front of the two of them, presumably because of problems in part I.

The VPO playing was very fine. The singing of the youth choir was very good and Rattle marshalled it all very well, if not terribly interestingly.

And what a masterpiece this is!

[VodkaDilc]

Need to listen on the iplayer to this...

The problem this evening in the hall - though it could of course have been where I was sitting - was the soloists, though less so with Roderick Williams. Mr Spence did not have the volume and his voice was worn or tired at points though he did not crack as such. Lady Rattle was in front of a music stand, and was not so much operatic in style as ill at ease. She seemed to have no self-possession or confidence, at least in this work. Both of them were underpowered and neither ideal for their roles. He did not act with his voice in a convincing manner for Gerontius and she was at sea, and with occasional American vowels.
!

This was very much my view too. In general the orchestra was stunning - the vocal side much more variable. The choir was huge, but lacked the oomph needed for the big choruses; I though that Praise to the Holiest really needed beefing up with some strong mature voices. Surprisingly, from my seat, the men were more successful than the female parts; there appeared to be hundreds of sopranos, but a disappointingly thin sound.

The Angel was the biggest let-down (the lack of the high note in the final Alleluia was the last straw!); her theatrical gestures seemed out of place and the diction was indistinct. Overall, I have heard much more satisfying performances of Gerontius; the wonderful orchestra deserved better support from the voices.

[King_Ouf_I]

Back from the hall and having had a couple of hours to collect my thoughts (but not having listened to the broadcast yet), I feel it was a broadly satisfying but flawed performance. The orchestra and Roderick Williams should take the plaudits, with Sir Simon and Toby Spence highly commended. The choir lacked that bit of heft, as VodkaDilc said, and Mrs.Rattle was mostly unintelligible (and I was in the side stalls barely 40 feet away from her). It's a shame that the ladies weren't swapped around between two of the concerts I've attended this month: I'd love to hear Jamie Barton tackle the Angel, and I'm sure Ms.Kožená could render a passable Alto Rhapsody. By no means unenjoyable, but not quite the climax to the season I had hoped for.

[Pabmusic]

...Was also interested by the fact that Kozena took all the low alternatives in her part (the ones in bigger notes in the Novello vocal score). Into my score I've written that in the 6/55 Gramophone there was a letter from Astra Desmond saying that EE preferred the higher (small-note) alternatives. Toby Spence took all the higher-note alternatives and these to me sounded right, but again they are the small-note alternatives. Alas, I've sent my 6/55 Gramophone to the tip and can't recall if Desmond gave any explanation of why EE's preferences are in the small notes. Can anyone elucidate?

Probably because the big notes lie more easily within the singer's range...and they are taxing parts. But if they can go for the higher version, that's Elgar's preference....maybe?...

Adcarp is right. It's a mezzo-soprano part quite definitely (apart from the fact that EE describes it as such). Therefore, it was quite permissible to push the voice into the soprano range; but having done so, EE had to be aware that not all mezzos are comfortable up there, and some mezzos are more contraltos anyway. So he wrote 'safe' notes with the option of taking the high notes if the singer could do so (his preferred singer was Muriel Foster, who could). After all, there's no reason to write 'soprano' notes as alternatives if you really want the 'mezzo' notes to be sung.