Prom 73: VPO/Bychkov (10.09.15)

[EnemyoftheStoat]

did you get there, Stoatfoe?

Indeed I did, Sainty, well placed in the arena so as not to hear it all twice.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

I was getting Fugues, Rondos and Chorales, too, just haven't got them organised yet !!

I was just being Franck.

[teamsaint]

I was just being Franck.

Multi layered punning.

can't beat it on a Friday afternoon.

[Conchis]

I was there for the Schmitdt, which I'd never heard before, and for Bychkov, who never fails to impress me.

I don't really get the negativity towards the Schmidt on this thread, particularly from first-timers: there are very few pieces of music of enduring worth that have an immediate 'pop' impact. Suffice it to say, I'm interested enough in this symphony to explore the composer's oeuvre further and to buy a recording. I supposed Jarvi's pricey set is the most recommendable?


That said, I wasn't that overwhelmed by the Brahms, which was fairly routine: as others have said, the VPO's interpretation rather than Bychkov's.

And what WAS all that clapping about? Coaches parties in?

[Hornspieler]

I was there for the Schmitdt, which I'd never heard before, and for Bychkov, who never fails to impress me.

I don't really get the negativity towards the Schmidt on this thread, particularly from first-timers: there are very few pieces of music of enduring worth that have an immediate 'pop' impact. Suffice it to say, I'm interested enough in this symphony to explore the composer's oeuvre further and to buy a recording. I supposed Jarvi's pricey set is the most recommendable?

I was interested to hear the Schmitdt symphony. A composer whose name seems to appear more frequently than his music, but it seemed that the VPO gave a good rendering.

That said, I wasn't that overwhelmed by the Brahms, which was fairly routine: as others have said, the VPO's interpretation rather than Bychkov's.

And what WAS all that clapping about? Coaches parties in?

Brahms 3 was disappointing to me, but I was not listening on the best equipment.
I found the violins to be a bit shrill, the back row of the woodwind (clarinets mostly) almost inaudible and why such a fuss was made about the horn section surprised me, because those wonderful "Viennese" horns sounded almost bucolic in the 1st movement and yet apologetic in the 3rd movement.

As for the trickle of applause between the movements, it did not worry me particularly but I was surprised that the clappers did not learn their lesson when nobody else joined in.
Probably a party of school children? Anyway, the conductor could have put a stop to it - that's one of the duties that his left hand is for.

HS

BTW When we used to give schools concerts, the "rebels" among the Bournemouth schools audience used to start applauding whenever there was silence, even within the music, presumably in the hope that the piece was over and we could get on with playing the "Lone Ranger" music.

[Conchis]

The pre-performance talk was interesting on the subject of Schmidt's continued neglect, especially in his own country. Musical conservatism (or 'approachability' - a preferred word for me, from now on!) seemed to be at the route of the problem, along with a disputed association with the Third Reich. But I suppose the real culprit is his similarity to certain other composers of the time (notably Strauss), without having such a distinct musical personality.

A quote from an Austrian radio programmer, when asked if he thought the time was ripe for a Schmidt revival: 'I sincerely hope not!'

There was an absence/ignorance of concert etiquette on the part of some audience members, though none - of course -among the Prommers. Bychkov had to pause for longer than necessary after the Brahms first movement to allow for the entrance of some latecomers, who clearly hadn't read their tickets properly. And the traditional signal for applause after a quiet finish (i.e., when the conductor lowers his baton/hand) wasn't observed: the applause started immediately after the final note.

I'm sure I surprised a look of condescension of the faces of some of the players (or maybe it was me 'transmitting' my own feelings), for which I don't blame them.

[Roehre]

The pre-performance talk was interesting on the subject of Schmidt's continued neglect, especially in his own country. Musical conservatism (or 'approachability' - a preferred word for me, from now on!) seemed to be at the route of the problem, along with a disputed association with the Third Reich. But I suppose the real culprit is his similarity to certain other composers of the time (notably Strauss), without having such a distinct musical personality.

A quote from an Austrian radio programmer, when asked if he thought the time was ripe for a Schmidt revival: 'I sincerely hope not!'

.....

Schmidt is a composer whose music shows some eclecticisms (sometimes a bit of Bruckner [1st symphony (1900), organ works] or Strauss [a bit 2nd symphony, 1911]

The third symphony, composed for the 1928 centenary of Schubert's death, is like Atterberg 6, Holbrooke 4 and Weingartner 6, Schubertian.

Until the mid 1920s he still worked/performed as cellist.
After that he found his own style as composer and most of the time is just himself.

A work that should be regularly performed IMO is his Fourth symphony (1933), a one mvt arch structure of great power and beauty, mahlerian in its emotions.

His pieces for piano and orchestra (1931/'34)[one for left hand/ wittgenstein] and his chamber music (string quartets [1925 and 1929], clarinet quartet [1932], clarinet quintet [1938], piano quintet [1926 -left hand/Wittgenstein] however cannot have been written but by Schmidt.
The same applies to his oratorio Das Buch mit den sieben Siegeln (1937) and also for large stretches of his opera Notre Dame (1904), with especially an enticing Intermezzo.

As far as the Austrian radio programmer is concerned: please note that the VPO complained about Bernstein's plans to play and record Mahler with them. Conservatism is most Austrians' second nature.

[Master Jacques]

A fabulous opportunity to hear a very great work - and I mean the Schmidt symphony, not the Brahms - superbly played and interpreted. The strings in particular played the work with a radiance which was spellbinding. This was the event of the Season, for me.

I'm baffled by the negativity towards this complex but fascinating 2nd symphony expressed earlier on this thread, presumably coming from people who hadn't heard it before. It's true, that this work takes a few hearings to "bed down" in the mind, but once one starts putting the pieces together in one's head, the rewards are immense. True, these are not "cheap novels" (Schmidt's own description of the symphonies by a contemporary rival who ought to remain nameless!) but rich, complex and deep narratives of unfailing musical intelligence, and - oddest thing of all to many of us angst-ridden moderns perhaps - humane optimism.

The idea that it somehow sounds like Richard Strauss (or anyone else) is totally wrong. It's of course possible to hear echoes of composers with whom we're more familiar in anything - absolutely anything - before we know a piece of music well enough to be able to differentiate what makes it distinctive. For me, there is a lifetime of absorbing listening in Schmidt's symphonies and chamber works (as well as the two operas) which renders these sort of comparisons meaningless. And he sounds like nobody else (if indeed that matters anyway.)

On the matter of applause, by the way, c.f. another thread in this section. Suffice it to say that Brahms, at least, would have been appalled if his 3rd Symphony had not been applauded between movements (and preferably, with at least one of them - the scherzo - encored!)

Conchis's comment suggesting a "look of condescension" on the faces of the players towards the audience tells us more about him/her than about the VPO: I saw the musicians smiling with delight at a display of spontaneous enthusiasm that they wouldn't have encountered in Vienna's Golden Hall. Conchis's comment strikes me as a typical British piece of self-deprecation: we should instead be celebrating a level of musical enthusiasm which is rarely found in Europe. Sneering at ourselves in such a negative way strikes me as mean-spirited in the extreme.

[Conchis]

A fabulous opportunity to hear a very great work - and I mean the Schmidt symphony, not the Brahms - superbly played and interpreted. The strings in particular played the work with a radiance which was spellbinding. This was the event of the Season, for me.

I'm baffled by the negativity towards this complex but fascinating 2nd symphony expressed earlier on this thread, presumably coming from people who hadn't heard it before. It's true, that this work takes a few hearings to "bed down" in the mind, but once one starts putting the pieces together in one's head, the rewards are immense. True, these are not "cheap novels" (Schmidt's own description of the symphonies by a contemporary rival who ought to remain nameless!) but rich, complex and deep narratives of unfailing musical intelligence, and - oddest thing of all to many of us angst-ridden moderns perhaps - humane optimism.

The idea that it somehow sounds like Richard Strauss (or anyone else) is totally wrong. It's of course possible to hear echoes of composers with whom we're more familiar in anything - absolutely anything - before we know a piece of music well enough to be able to differentiate what makes it distinctive. For me, there is a lifetime of absorbing listening in Schmidt's symphonies and chamber works (as well as the two operas) which renders these sort of comparisons meaningless. And he sounds like nobody else (if indeed that matters anyway.)

On the matter of applause, by the way, c.f. another thread in this section. Suffice it to say that Brahms, at least, would have been appalled if his 3rd Symphony had not been applauded between movements (and preferably, with at least one of them - the scherzo - encored!)

Conchis's comment suggesting a "look of condescension" on the faces of the players towards the audience tells us more about him/her than about the VPO: I saw the musicians smiling with delight at a display of spontaneous enthusiasm that they wouldn't have encountered in Vienna's Golden Hall. Conchis's comment strikes me as a typical British piece of self-deprecation: we should instead be celebrating a level of musical enthusiasm which is rarely found in Europe. Sneering at ourselves in such a negative way strikes me as mean-spirited in the extreme.

Your own sneering and condescending description of me (I don't think we've met, other than on this forum) is somewhat undermined by the fact that I am not British (though I AM European). A pity you had to spoil an otherwise enjoyable and informative post with this bit of uncalled-for vituperation.

[Master Jacques]

My apologies to Conchis, for making him feel my "vituperation" (his word) at what I called "typically British self-deprecation" was personal. It wasn't intended personally: I was expressing my (impersonal) frustration at the self-deprecating snobbery which has pervaded British attitudes to our own music-making, and our own audiences' behaviour, for too many years.

The fact that Conchis is not British makes his comment, perhaps, rather less than more excusable! Having asked another couple of audience members whether they'd traced any "condescension" on those VPO faces, I was greeted with the same baffled indignation which I felt myself on reading Conchis's words. Most people, it seems, are more generous in their interpretation of the VPO players' smiling faces and (to us, evident) joy at the occasion.

[Conchis]

My apologies to Conchis, for making him feel my "vituperation" (his word) at what I called "typically British self-deprecation" was personal. It wasn't intended personally: I was expressing my (impersonal) frustration at the self-deprecating snobbery which has pervaded British attitudes to our own music-making, and our own audiences' behaviour, for too many years.

The fact that Conchis is not British makes his comment, perhaps, rather less than more excusable! Having asked another couple of audience members whether they'd traced any "condescension" on those VPO faces, I was greeted with the same baffled indignation which I felt myself on reading Conchis's words. Most people, it seems, are more generous in their interpretation of the VPO players' smiling faces and (to us, evident) joy at the occasion.

If you'd read my initial posting a little more carefully, I might admitted the possiblity that I might have been 'transmitting' my own feelings.

Clapping after the first movement is understandable and forgivable in the first-time concertgoer - but to repeat the mistake after every movement played? No.

[Petrushka]

Terribly dull Brahms in the hall blighted by a barrage of coughing.

Just to amplify on my comment done on my phone during the interval. The performance of the Brahms 3 had all the hallmarks of one done on no rehearsal whatever. The orchestra seemed to be uninvolved and Bychkov wasn't doing anything to rock the boat. One can imagine the VPO chairman saying: ' Look,Herr Bychkov, we know the piece, you know the piece, don't worry that we've used all the rehearsal time on the Elgar and Schmidt, we'll play it for you as we did for Karajan'.

This sense of the VPO and conductor being bored transmitted itself to the audience who hacked and coughed there way through it.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Clapping after the first movement is understandable and forgivable in the first-time concertgoer - but to repeat the mistake after every movement played? No.

It's odd that first-time concert goers know how to behave almost everywhere else.

[Darkbloom]

Just to amplify on my comment done on my phone during the interval. The performance of the Brahms 3 had all the hallmarks of one done on no rehearsal whatever.

I haven't heard the performance yet but I daresay you are spot on here. I have been to VPO performances (particularly first halves) that have a terrible air of routine about them before picking themselves up, hopefully, after the interval. It must be hard for any conductor, however eminent, to make much of an impression on that weight of collective tradition and you have just to bite the bullet and hope for better things later on.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I seem to be in a minority here, but i absolutely loved the Brahms, but then most of the recordings I have of this work are played by this orchestra: Barbirolli, Bernstein, Kertesz, Abbado, Karajan. Only Furtwangler is played by the Berliners.