Prom 73: VPO/Bychkov (10.09.15)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I just wish they wouldn't do Nimrod to death, though I'm not really going to complain too much about any opportunity of hearing the Vienna Philharmonic playing Elgar. I'd just rather it was in the 3rd movement of that composer's 1st symphony.

[Nick Armstrong]

Oh I see, Nimrod was played as an encore twice this week, was it? Seems to be fashionable - the Bolívar youngsters did it the last couple of times I attended their concerts here.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oh I see, Nimrod was played as an encore twice this week, was it? Seems to be fashionable - the Bolívar youngsters did it the last couple of times I attended their concerts here.

I expect they listen to Radio 3 online and learn that this is a much-repeated bleeding chunk that the British rather like, so visiting orchestras bring it out like a box of chocolates.

[Flay]

Oh I see, Nimrod was played as an encore twice this week, was it?

Keep up please, m'lud. Just the once last night. We had the Enigma the other night!

Miaouw !

Indeed

[Nick Armstrong]

Keep up please, m'lud. Just the once last night. We had the Enigma the other night!

The Court is obliged to Mr Flay for his assistance and in the circumstances will overlook the faintly derisory tone of his otherwise enlightening submission

[teamsaint]

Apologies, TS, I rather derailed your question, but I'd like to ask it too as I may need to engineer an early departure from the day-job...

did you get there, Stoatfoe?

[Prommer]

Oh I see, Nimrod was played as an encore twice this week, was it? Seems to be fashionable - the Bolívar youngsters did it the last couple of times I attended their concerts here.

I am given to understand by my Clerk that the thrusting young folk of today do not even dress for dinner these days. But I simply do not believe him...

[Nick Armstrong]

Tsk...!!

[Ferretfancy]

Hello all

I'd be interested to hear your opinions about this week's Nimroff. I preferred Tuesday to Thursday, but perhaps it's all just a matter of circumstance, as I may have been rather less receptive to Elgar after the Schmidt than I had been after the glories of the Tchaikovsky violin concerto. Temirkanov felt softer and slower than Bychkov - the strings hardly seemed to move visibly at the start of the St Petersburg Nimrod and yet produced a lovely soft sound. And I'd echo Maclintick's assessment of the Schmidt - it made the orchestra sound lovely but seemed to leave no impression on me of actual music.

I preferred the Temirkanov performance of Nimrod, but I think that was because we heard it in context,hearing it in isolation always brings uncomfortable reminders of military bands at the Cenotaph.

[Ferretfancy]

Oh I see, Nimrod was played as an encore twice this week, was it? Seems to be fashionable - the Bolívar youngsters did it the last couple of times I attended their concerts here.

It was not played as an encore by the St Petersburg PO, but as part of a complete performance of the Enigma Variations.

[Prommer]

I preferred the Temirkanov performance of Nimrod, but I think that was because we heard it in context,hearing it in isolation always brings uncomfortable reminders of military bands at the Cenotaph.

That must be balls.

Better in context but perfectly ok as a separate item too (as all encores must be).

I do not come over all 'British Legion' when I hear Nimrod, but it does always move me.

And not to be part of the Battle of Britain.

[Prommer]

I preferred the Temirkanov performance of Nimrod, but I think that was because we heard it in context,hearing it in isolation always brings uncomfortable reminders of military bands at the Cenotaph.

Sorry, to be perfectly correct (and indeed fair), FF, I cannot deny what you say about your own reaction, nor that it is regularly used at memorials of different kinds, but I strongly doubt it is 'heard' by most as a specifically 'militaristic' piece even so.

It is a piece of pure emotion in music, on to which people will write whatever they are preoccupied with - or likely to be moved by - at any particular time.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

I’m glad to see some positive comments creeping in, especially from people who were in the hall, as they chime more with my VPO/Bychkov experience. Also glad to see positives from the "professional" critics, as that might encourage more Schmidt in future this side of the "Kanal". No. 1 would go down a storm - a lot easier for the newcomer to this composer, and a little like Dvorak on (mild) acid.

Brahms 3 first – my least favourite of the Brahms four, and the one that I generally avoid unless the rest of the programme appeals. No great revelations here: SB’s non-interventionist and mostly unfussy approach underplayed the drama that the outer movements need to really come to life. Here, it was the quieter moments that were impressive; actually, just about everything was beautifully done, very musical, and maybe that was the problem. With the VPO, we were always going to get the “house-style” Brahms, no matter who was carving. I suspect that had it been Haitink we’d have got not-dissimilar results. Now, if part one had been the complete Elgar Variations on an Original Theme (but the organ would have been "out" - oh, oh, Gerontius....)

Schmidt 2 – and the reason why I was there. Conversation with people in the queue and arena pointed to two polar opposites; the minority of Schmidt aficionados and the majority who were only there for the Brahms. I have sympathy for the latter, as I know from experience that Schmidt symphonies, particularly 2,3 or 4, are not easy to grasp at first (second, third, fourth) hearing. Hence I can understand the perplexed comments from newcomers, but it’s far too good a piece to be dismissed as “justly neglected”, second-hand Strauss or sub-Korngold, particularly after one hearing - especially a performance this good.

I’ve had Schmidt 2 in the collection for a long time, firstly the Chandos and latterly the Naxos and Andante recordings. In fact, I felt it worked better in the hall than it does on disc, although I’d put that down to the SB/VPO partnership and their clear-sighted view of the piece’s structure. And it is a structure; three movements there may be, but this is pretty much a set of variations in three movements. Understood as such, it makes sense. Another thing that finally made sense in this performance was that coda and the preceding contrapuntal section; I had been wanting just a touch more prominence in the brass (though maybe not the Chicago heavy metal) but there was a nobility to the final chorale that was ultimately more satisfying, especially with the final few bars carefully balanced with the tonic pedal audibly underpinning the harmonic sideslip eleven bars from the end, so you know where it's going.

[jayne lee wilson]

I take your point, EoS, about variations, but - the first movement is a clearly laid-out sonata-structure in which the theme becomes three subjects; and let's not overlook the scherzo and trio that form the 9th and 10th variations - so you hear the 9th twice as the scherzo repeat... (which is why it can seem to outstay its welcome).
The finale? Hmm...! W-I-P! Just now I'm calling it "fugue, rondo and chorale", with the rondo theme (a version of the first movement's joyfully brassy chorale) interpenetrating its episodes, all based on recall of earlier versions of the theme...

I returned to the Bychkov first movement early today, with a slightly clearer head - I'm afraid I still found it undistinguished as a conducted reading, not enough shaping of the phrase, or sureness of structural sonata-direction for me. As I said back in the thread (#36), just the VPO playing it as they will. HDs sound was well balanced if a touch dry on iPlayer (Live relay was sweeter, more open)....

[teamsaint]

I take your point, EoS, about variations, but - the first movement is a clearly laid-out sonata-structure in which the theme becomes three subjects; and let's not overlook the scherzo and trio that form the 9th and 10th variations - so you hear the 9th twice as the scherzo repeat... (which is why it can seem to outstay its welcome).
The finale? Hmm...! W-I-P! Just now I'm calling it "fugue, rondo and chorale", with the rondo theme (a version of the first movement's joyfully brassy chorale) interpenetrating its episodes, all based on recall of earlier versions of the theme...

I returned to the Bychkov first movement early today, with a slightly clearer head - I'm afraid I still found it undistinguished as a conducted reading, not enough shaping of the phrase, or sureness of structural sonata-direction for me. As I said back in the thread (#36), just the VPO playing it as they will. HDs sound was well balanced if a touch dry on iPlayer (Live relay was sweeter, more open)....

I was getting Fugues, Rondos and Chorales, too, just haven't got them organised yet !!