Prom 66: Beethoven/Schoenberg/Shostakovich (4.09.15)

[jayne lee wilson]

Oops! Sorry ed, my apologies!

Jayne, maybe you need to buy better hi-fi equipment if the basses were coming down the middle!

Er.... is that what "centre-left" means to you?

Petrenko often favours this db-centreleft layout at the RLPO. But when the band starts to play, shut your eyes and... get a surprise....

[Beef Oven!]

Er.... is that what "centre-left" means to you?

No, it's my take on your "centrally placed double basses".

Were they taking banana shots, or something!?

[Beef Oven!]

But when the band starts to play, shut your eyes and... get a surprise....

It's not that sort of place..........

[jayne lee wilson]

No, it's my take on your "centrally placed double basses".

Were they taking banana shots, or something!?

You're not giving me nearly enough info here as to their exact position, or in relation to cellos and violas. The RAH is hardly a typical setting anyway, and with a piece the size of DSCH 8, the mikes could have been far enough back to create a narrower angle on the orchestral layout than seen (or possibly heard) by someone in the arena, especially close-up. In most stereo recordings, when the Dbs are on the usual extreme right of the orchestra, that is usually very obvious. But with recordings of centre to centre-left ones, the audible accuracy to the position varies considerably according to acoustics and microphone placements, etc., and there is in any case more of a textural blend through the winds and strings around and in front of them.

Listening to a live orchestra, it can be very surprising - and most instructive about human perception - what happens to "imagery" as such, when you listen with your eyes closed, to compare with the experience at home.

[Beef Oven!]

You're not giving me nearly enough info here as to their exact position, or in relation to cellos and violas. The RAH is hardly a typical setting anyway, and with a piece the size of DSCH 8, the mikes could have been far enough back to create a narrower angle on the orchestral layout than seen (or possibly heard) by someone in the arena, especially close-up. In most stereo recordings, when the Dbs are on the usual extreme right of the orchestra, that is usually very obvious. But with recordings of centre to centre-left ones, the audible accuracy to the position varies considerably according to acoustics and microphone placements, etc.

Listening to a live orchestra, it can be very surprising - and most instructive about human perception - what happens to "imagery" as such, when you listen with your eyes closed, to compare with the experience at home.

They weren't centrally placed, that's all you need to know. The rest is noise.

[jayne lee wilson]

They weren't centrally placed, that's all you need to know. The rest is noise.

I give up. With you, its usually the best option.

[Beef Oven!]

I give up. With you its usually the best option.

Dear kettle .........

[Simon B]

Scrapping aside the layout went:

1st violins in the usual place.

Then basses next, clockwise looking down from above.

3 rows each ascending a tier. 4, 2, 4.

Very much on the left. However, circular auditorium with weird acoustic and many microphones? Anything can happen.

HTH.

[Simon B]

Well, ok, they were then sort of behind and to the left of the 2nd row of 1sts and 1st row of 2nds. Needs a diagram. You get the jist. 42!

As you were...

[Beef Oven!]

Well, ok, they were then sort of behind and to the left of the 2nd row of 1sts and 1st row of 2nds. Needs a diagram. You get the jist. 42!

As you were...

The basses weren't centrally placed, the were on the left of the stage!!! What's wrong with you all!!!???? .......

I wish I'd taken a bleedin' photo!!!!

The lengths that Jayne dude will go to before she accepts she's bloody wrong!!!!!!

[Petrushka]

I was present at this Prom (seated in M stalls) and can say without doubt that the 10 double basses were placed to the left, violas and cellos in the centre between divided violins, the horns in the centre behind the woodwind, the brass to the right and the percussion stretched along the back with the timps in the centre and the bass drum and cymbals extreme right.

In a fairly lack-lustre season this just has to be the stand-out Prom of the year. I admit to struggling with the Schoenberg Piano Concerto so have to take on trust everybody else's positive comments. The Shostakovich, though, I've known well for 40 years and this was as good as it gets in this work. I've fond memories of a blistering performance from Haitink and the Concertgebouw in 1983 but Jurowski was its equal. Biggest cheer of the evening went to Simon Carrington on timpani, just magnificent playing and the orchestral nervous breakdown from third to fourth movement was properly overwhelming, shattering in its impact.

Yes, SimonB, I'd spotted Russell Jordan in the percussion (Klaus Tennstedt's LPO timpanist) and good to see him back!

[EdgeleyRob]

Some marvellous reviews there guys,thanks.
You can keep the Schoenberg,it's horrible,not in any hurry to hear it again.
A searing DSCH 8 to send shivers down the spine.
I wonder,with that major key ending being so hard fought and coming at such a great cost,whether cheering,or even any applause at all,is appropriate ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I wonder,with that major key ending being so hard fought and coming at such a great cost,whether cheering,or even any applause at all,is appropriate ?

Describes the Schoenberg Piano Concerto perfectly, Edgey - you should listen to that fantastic work again, pretty soon.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Some marvellous reviews there guys,thanks.
You can keep the Schoenberg,it's horrible,not in any hurry to hear it again.
A searing DSCH 8 to send shivers down the spine.
I wonder,with that major key ending being so hard fought and coming at such a great cost,whether cheering,or even any applause at all,is appropriate ?

I completely disagree about the Schoenberg - but I will keep it, thank you :)

However, I am in agreement about DSCH8 applause. I would extend this to DSCH5; I remember thinking after the Gardner/BBCSO Proms performance that a football-crowd roar after that piece is just wrong.

[Petrushka]

I wonder,with that major key ending being so hard fought and coming at such a great cost,whether cheering,or even any applause at all,is appropriate ?

Have to admit that I didn't put my hands together for about 10/15 seconds after the applause began and then only tentatively at first. But the massive build up in tension has to have a release and I duly joined in with the cheering. The music was over - time to show one's appreciation for what was by any standard, a terrific performance.

At the 1983 Concertgebouw/Haitink Prom they even gave us an encore (Beethoven's Egmont Overture) which I thought even at the time was a touch superfluous but it sent us into the summer night in cheerful mood.