Prom 62: OAE/Brahms (1.09.15)

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  • edashtav
    Full Member
    • Jul 2012
    • 3672

    #31
    Brahms Symphony no 1 in C minor

    Isn’t Marin Alsop wonderful in Brahms? He brings out the best in her conducting, I feel. Marin started the first with the OAE in a lofty and majestic style as if she’d assumed the mantle of Otto Klemperer. That made a good contrast with the genuine allegro that followed which had energy, shape and direction. Was her transition into the 2nd subject a little bumpy? Perhaps, but the players soon recovered to achieve a nicely relaxed contrast. The build to the recapitulation was well-structured with rhythmic sharpness and an increase in tension.

    The slow movement was pleasantly turned with a sensitive solo violin that was neatly accompanied by horn with woodwind providing a pointed contrast. The third movement allowed the woodwind to distinguish themselves, although the mood was a little too relaxed for my liking. Perhaps, the pace at the start of the finale should have been a bit faster but the “big tune” came as a distinct contrast. It’s typical of Marin’s technique that movements grow and flower in a natural fashion and this one did with plenty held back so that the coda sounded both inevitable and final. Clever balance ensured that the end was thrilling with trombones making themselves heard in an appropriate manner.

    A good HIPP performance that I thoroughly enjoyed.

    Comment

    • David-G
      Full Member
      • Mar 2012
      • 1216

      #32
      Originally posted by Darkbloom View Post
      My experience of the OAE has always been slightly coloured by my first concert seeing them when they seemed the grumpiest bunch of players I have ever seen. They were being conducted by Heinrich Schiff that night and they clearly had no opinion of him at all. I swear one of the viola players was asleep, or close to nodding off, during the Eroica, and when the rest stood up to take their applause at the end they had pretty stony faces.
      As a regular and long-standing attender of OAE concerts, I can assure you that the OAE is the least grumpy and smiliest of orchestras.

      Comment

      • jayne lee wilson
        Banned
        • Jul 2011
        • 10711

        #33


        Jamie Barton emerged as the star of the OAE/Marin Alsop's all-Brahms Prom, which included the first Proms performance of Brahms' Triumphlied.


        A concert of Brahms chamber music I could understand, especially given a balance between early and late. An evening of orchestral Brahms, with or without voices, needs much more special pleading. It didn’t get nearly enough last night. An expanded Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, including nine very vigorous double basses – where did the extra players come from?

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        • edashtav
          Full Member
          • Jul 2012
          • 3672

          #34
          Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
          Three reviews that suggest Alpie was right to suggest that all paid reviewers should be replaced by JLW who gets there first and gets it right!

          Comment

          • Darkbloom
            Full Member
            • Feb 2015
            • 706

            #35
            Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
            Ooh, I can't let that pass without comment...
            Strings "coarse over the air or on disc"? Have you tried the Hanssler Profil live series with Colin Davis or Haitink, Db? Not much sign of anything but that dark, blended Dresden tonal beauty on those, e.g. Davis's Mendelssohn 3 & 5, Tippett Child of Our Time, Schubert's 9th - or Haitink Bruckner 6... all in the Semperoper of course.
            Nor do I recall any great upper-frequency discomfort with Jochum's Bruckner.

            Earlier issues of analogue tapings such as the classic Sawallisch Schumann cycle didn't always cope too well with the resonances of the ubiquitous Lukaskirche - the EMI Studio set wasn't always easy on the ears. But listen to Okazaki's Toshiba reissue** and marvel at the lustre, strength and warmth of those strings again, and the wonderfully tangible acoustic. Suitner's Mozart Symphonies set on Berlin Classics from the late 60s/70s goes pretty well too - I just tried No.32 and was fairly pleased with the upper strings on that too - a shade more forward than the Schumann but well-balanced.

            I've loved the sound of the Staatskapelle a long time - but it was a love inspired, precisely, by recordings and broadcasts...
            I did hear them live at the Bridgewater once, Haitink in Haydn 44 and Bruckner 6. The Haydn was a shade dull, the Bruckner wasn't exactly mellow!

            (**the EMI GROC isn't too far behind...but Toshiba - )
            You're making me nervous to post here. My work keeps coming back with red ink all over it!

            As you say, the Sawalisch is a bit too early to show Dresden off to full advantage. I was probably thinking of the Sinopoli Bruckner in particular, which sounded very cramped and boxy to me. Granted, my audio equipment is not the best so I may well be missing qualities that would be revealed on a better set-up. I have the Mahler 2 from Haitink that I keep meaning to get around to hearing again. I always liked Dresden before I heard them live anyway, but the big thing that struck me was the way the strings sounded in the hall. For me, on disc they often had a steely quality (you jumped on my use of the word 'coarse', which was fair enough, as it was over the top) that sounded more like Mravinsky's Leningrad than the uniquely velvety quality that I heard live. I'm more familiar with the other Jochum Bruckner cycle than the Dresden one, although I have heard bits of it.

            Comment

            • Tony Halstead
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 1717

              #36
              Originally posted by David-G View Post
              As a regular and long-standing attender of OAE concerts, I can assure you that the OAE is the least grumpy and smiliest of orchestras.
              except when they decided about 2 years ago to request the resignation of ( i.e. sack) their outstanding principal oboe - who had devoted about 20 years of his life to the OAE - on the strength of an observation (i.e. complaint) by one of the Glyndebourne staff...
              If there was ever a scenario of 'chucking out the baby with the bath water' this was it.

              Comment

              • Tony Halstead
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1717

                #37
                Originally posted by Tony View Post
                except when they decided about 2 years ago to request the resignation of ( i.e. sack) their outstanding principal oboe - who had devoted about 20 years of his life to the OAE - on the strength of an observation (i.e. complaint) by one of the Glyndebourne staff...
                If there was ever a scenario of 'chucking out the baby with the bath water' this was it.
                Oh dear, I really should have given the name of that wonderful oboist - Anthony Robson - who only a couple of months ago gave a superb performance of the DITTERSDORF oboe concerto at the English Haydn Festival in Bridgnorth, Shropshire, UK.
                Last year ( 2014) he gave a performance of the Mozart Oboe concerto, also at the EHF Bridgnorth, which was the finest HIPP performance of that piece that I have ever heard.

                Comment

                • jayne lee wilson
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 10711

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Darkbloom View Post
                  You're making me nervous to post here. My work keeps coming back with red ink all over it!

                  As you say, the Sawalisch is a bit too early to show Dresden off to full advantage. I was probably thinking of the Sinopoli Bruckner in particular, which sounded very cramped and boxy to me. Granted, my audio equipment is not the best so I may well be missing qualities that would be revealed on a better set-up. I have the Mahler 2 from Haitink that I keep meaning to get around to hearing again. I always liked Dresden before I heard them live anyway, but the big thing that struck me was the way the strings sounded in the hall. For me, on disc they often had a steely quality (you jumped on my use of the word 'coarse', which was fair enough, as it was over the top) that sounded more like Mravinsky's Leningrad than the uniquely velvety quality that I heard live. I'm more familiar with the other Jochum Bruckner cycle than the Dresden one, although I have heard bits of it.
                  Oh I'm sorry, Db - I didn't want to get at you, just give credit to the producers, engineers and record companies who take a lot trouble over getting things right, remastering etc...
                  Anyway, as I found out at the Bridgewater - things don't always sound the way you want them to, live or recorded!

                  Comment

                  • Darkbloom
                    Full Member
                    • Feb 2015
                    • 706

                    #39
                    Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                    Oh I'm sorry, Db - I didn't want to get at you, just give credit to the producers, engineers and record companies who take a lot trouble over getting things right, remastering etc...
                    Anyway, as I found out at the Bridgewater - things don't always sound the way you want them to, live or recorded!
                    No, not at all. You gave me some interesting things to look at. I'm the last person who minds being corrected or disagreed with (it's much more interesting that way) so carry on. I was only kidding.

                    Comment

                    • Flay
                      Full Member
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 5795

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Tony View Post
                      that wonderful oboist - Anthony Robson
                      Is this him?

                      Pacta sunt servanda !!!

                      Comment

                      • Tony Halstead
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 1717

                        #41
                        Yes!

                        Four stars, one each for the superb Barbara Bonney and the 3 woodwind soloists, Janet See (flute), Tony Robson (oboe) and Alastair Mitchell ( bassoon).

                        Comment

                        • Flay
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 5795

                          #42
                          Thanks. May I claim one extra for WAM's wonderful composition!
                          Pacta sunt servanda !!!

                          Comment

                          • Barbirollians
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 11785

                            #43
                            My favourite HIPP oboist from recordings is the late David Reichenberg - utterly beautiful playing .

                            Comment

                            • Tony Halstead
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 1717

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
                              My favourite HIPP oboist from recordings is the late David Reichenberg - utterly beautiful playing .
                              Absolutely agreed, what an incalculable loss to the period-instrument world when David passed away -far too young - in 1986.
                              I had the great pleasure to play with him in many concerts and several recordings with the English Concert and Trevor Pinnock.
                              Maybe my memory is faulty but D.R. tended to specialise in the 'baroque' oboe, whereas today's HIPP oboists are invariably required - rather unfairly, I think - to cover a very wide spectrum from Purcell (and maybe 'pre-Purcell') up to the 20th century, via Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms and Mahler!

                              If I had any input into the selection process at the OAE in their quest to find a successor to the almost irreplaceable Tony Robson, I would recommend that they divide the post up into
                              1) Baroque/ Classical and
                              2) Romantic/ 20th century.
                              So, TWO principal oboes.

                              The fact that they have been 'trialling' various oboists for 2 years and haven't yet found anyone to replace Mr Robson does rather suggest that they were - let us say - somewhat precipitous, if not downright ill-advised ( by the Glyndebourne 'smart suits' ?) when their 'artistic committee' decided to sack Mr R.
                              Last edited by Tony Halstead; 04-09-15, 19:00. Reason: never mind

                              Comment

                              • Barbirollians
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 11785

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Tony View Post
                                Absolutely agreed, what an incalculable loss to the period-instrument world when David passed away -far too young - in 1986.
                                I had the great pleasure to play with him in many concerts and several recordings with the English Concert and Trevor Pinnock.
                                Maybe my memory is faulty but D.R. tended to specialise in the 'baroque' oboe, whereas today's HIPP oboists are invariably required - rather unfairly, I think - to cover a very wide spectrum from Purcell (and maybe 'pre-Purcell') up to the 20th century, via Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms and Mahler!



                                If I had any input into the selection process at the OAE in their quest to find a successor to the almost irreplaceable Tony Robson, I would recommend that they divide the post up into
                                1) Baroque/ Classical and
                                2) Romantic/ 20th century.
                                So, TWO principal oboes.

                                The fact that they have been 'trialling' various oboists for 2 years and haven't yet found anyone to replace Mr Robson does rather suggest that they were - let us say - somewhat precipitous, if not downright ill-advised ( by the Glyndebourne 'smart suits' ?) when their 'artistic committee' decided to sack Mr R.
                                I think you are right about David Reichenberg and the baroque oboe. He also made a recording of the Bach Concerto for Oboe d'Amore - a desert island disc for me - bought when I was 18 and 30 years on still magical

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