Prom 57: COE/Haitink (28.08.15)

[Prommer]

Bless him, but Bernard Haitink and C major just does not work!

I think this may be a case of a conductor needing to retire: very disciplined, very capable and orchestra-friendly, but blimey, where was the soul in that?

It ended in a haze of C major, not a blaze.

[ardcarp]

I think this may be a case of a conductor needing to retire:

Oh dear, a bit harsh there Prommer? The 9th is a very tricky work to pull off. There are two possible approaches for the conductor. The first is to pull it about and emote a lot, but this IMVHO makes the work seem long-winded and repetitive. The second is to crack on (as BH did) and go for the 'classical' structure (he talked about the 'architecture' of the piece in the interval talk). This worked well with the COE who played with incredible cohesion and zest. My, what a fabulous wind section! And what a sassy leader!! I agree the ending might have been a bit more of a stunner...but did you notice all the 'endings' tonight (in the Mozart too) were tastefully understated?

[Hornspieler]

Oh dear, a bit harsh there Prommer? The 9th is a very tricky work to pull off. There are two possible approaches for the conductor. The first is to pull it about and emote a lot, but this IMVHO makes the work seem long-winded and repetitive. The second is to crack on (as BH did) and go for the 'classical' structure (he talked about the 'architecture' of the piece in the interval talk). This worked well with the COE who played with incredible cohesion and zest. My, what a fabulous wind section! And what a sassy leader!! I agree the ending might have been a bit more of a stunner...but did you notice all the 'endings' tonight (in the Mozart too) were tastefully understated?

For me, this was the Prom of the Season.

Maria João Pires gave a performance of such quality that I was quite overwhelmed and I felt that I could have been listening to Mozart himself playing his own concerto. The wind playing was spot on (and don't think that those high horn parts are easy!)

The Great C Major was the first symphony that I ever heard live played by a professional orchestra.
It was the final work in the opening concert given by Rudolf Schwarz and the Bournemouth Municipal Ortchestra when it was re-formed after the war years.

Rhythmic integrity, perfect balance and superb playing by every section. So much so, that I welcomed all of those repeated sections which I used to find so tedious (I bet those poor 1st violins were did not share my enjoyment!)

I was reminded of the words of the Professor of Horn, Frantisec Szolc when we played the symphony in BRNO uinder Rudolf Schwarz: "...I thought the orchestra played the symphony very good and the conductor gave the performance his blessing."

For me, Bernard Haitinck did exactly that - but I would love to have seen his preparation and influence in rehearsal.

The COE has always been a favourite of mine. Ever since it was first formed as a youth orchestra based in Lisbon and with young players from all over Europe.

Worth watching on television if you can, to witness the sheer commitment by all of the players.

HS

[Prommer]

Haitink was a wonderful opera conductor, especially in Wagner. But he has become so minimalist as to be anonymous - and not, I think, in a good way. So diffident as to be invisible, other than as a competent stick waver. His mid session interview was remarkably flat and uninformative.

Agree about the sassy leader, and the attentiveness - and quality - of the players. They have real energy, and they showed it, but think what they could do with the Great under a truly galvanising rather than merely mildly shaping influence.

And the repeats are not just identical repeats, in a true interpretation (this is indeed tedious). They should gain cumulative force, and be possessed of humour and point.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And the repeats are not just identical repeats, in a true interpretation (this is indeed tedious).

[Darkbloom]

I don't think we should take age as much of a yardstick to judge the failings of a conductor. Haitink has always had his fair share of off-nights when he has seemed in a bad mood. I can recall his Wagner, even, being patchy with a good Act 1, an indifferent Act 2 and then a blinding Act 3. I felt his return to CG to conduct Parsifal was rather disappointing and a bit 'hands off', as though he wasn't really engaged. He is one of the moodiest of conductors underneath the unassuming competence. I don't think we should forget people like old Gunter Wand, in his nineties, tottering to the podium with the help of someone, and then giving us Bruckner 9s that would part your hair with their commitment.

[Prommer]

I am all in favour of the oldies and goodies... Klemperer, Wand, etc. They still had something to say, and a will to say it.

Colin Davis in old age produced some truly wonderful, individual performances of great works. Not I think 'pulled about' but just confident and interesting.

I just do not see Haitink's Indian summer as being all that warm. Which is a shame.

[Alison]

The Schubert 9 wasn't top notch Haitink Imho yet received plenty of excellent notices from David Nice, Mark Berry and Barry Millington among others let alone forumites here.

Surely it boils down to taste and to call for retirement is a bit insulting to a very distinguished musician.

[Darkbloom]

The Schubert 9 wasn't top notch Haitink Imho yet received plenty of excellent notices from David Nice, Mark Berry and Barry Millington among others let alone forumites here.

Surely it boils down to taste and to call for retirement is a bit insulting to a very distinguished musician.

Agreed. I didn't particularly enjoy it, but I can't say it was 'wrong' or 'bad' either, just a little straight for my taste, when I usually prefer that work to have a clearer sense of direction and imagination. I think most people here preferred the lighter touch and just hearing the orchestra play, and that's fair enough and just part of discussions like this and what makes them interesting. I think we found a similar thing with the discussion about the recent Bruckner 7 with some people finding it too hurried, while I found the forward momentum rather bracing.

I can recall people near the end of Colin Davis's life muttering that he should give it up and that he was past it - all conductors give indifferent performances from time to time (even the very best). Sometimes with Haitink I feel that he just gets out of the wrong side of the bed that morning and isn't quite inside the music. On those nights he seems content to be the bandmaster more than anything else.

[Petrushka]

I think it's a case of the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Zubin Mehta told of seeing Karl Böhm in tears on one occasion despairing of the fact that, due to his great age and physical infirmity, he would never conduct Tristan ever again. Haitink has made considerable modifications to his conducting style in recent years to accommodate his age and health problems and is a master of the art that conceals art, providing minimalist gestures that matter rather than being the firebrand of the 1960s and 70s. In doing so he can easily give the impression that he is half asleep and 'content to be the bandmaster' yet that Schubert 9 showed a clear sense of direction and plenty of imagination to me.

Orchestras and audiences love him. He has just settled his rift with the Concertgebouw and will, God willing, conduct them next season.

[Richard Tarleton]

Thank you (from, as you know, a fellow Haitink-phile) for this eloquent assessment, Pet. I finally caught up with the performance on TV last night.

[Petrushka]

I've just watched the BBC4 TV relay of this concert and have to say that it gave, if anything, even more unadulterated pleasure than being in the hall. Excellent TV direction, first-rate sound and a truly memorable performance of the Schubert Great C Major. Indeed, I'm thinking this now has to be my preferred version of the work over all CD recordings I have. Just wonderful! Playing of tremendous commitment from the COE and direction from Haitink that produced far more than his economic gestures revealed. Outstanding Mozart, too, from Pires who, likewise revealed far more with less effort than many another giant of the keyboard.

Prom concerts don't get much better than this.

[Pabmusic]

I've seen the various comments about the Schubert. Well, I've just watched it and thought it was really good, if just a little 'rushed' in places. Perfectly valid interpretation, though. The third movement really danced.

[ardcarp]

I too would just like to endorse everything Hornspieler said in #78

[Hornspieler]

I think it's a case of the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Zubin Mehta told of seeing Karl Böhm in tears on one occasion despairing of the fact that, due to his great age and physical infirmity, he would never conduct Tristan ever again. Haitink has made considerable modifications to his conducting style in recent years to accommodate his age and health problems and is a master of the art that conceals art, providing minimalist gestures that matter rather than being the firebrand of the 1960s and 70s. In doing so he can easily give the impression that he is half asleep and 'content to be the bandmaster' yet that Schubert 9 showed a clear sense of direction and plenty of imagination to me.

Orchestras and audiences love him. He has just settled his rift with the Concertgebouw and will, God willing, conduct them next season.

I am in total agreement with this assessment. The performance was immaculate, with superb and exciting playing by all the sections.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Haitink was enjoying the performance just as I was.

Would you prefer Gergiev, with his silly cocktail stick and twiddling fingers?

HS