Prom 57: COE/Haitink (28.08.15)

[Darkbloom]

OY!!! That's my Celibidache joke turned back on me!

Much as I prefer Krivine to (almost) anybody else these days, I loved that Ninth - and it had the most joyful Finale I've ever heard from a "Big Band/Trad" performance - those kids singing their hearts and souls out, as if they hadn't been told that Beethoven's vocal lines were "forbidding".

Such a fickung shame that the soloists could only be described as ...


(assumes Edith Evans' Lady Bracknell tone)



... "Vocalists"!

There is something about a really grindingly slow performance that can work in the right hands. I love a lot of Klemperer, for example, even if I know it's probably all wrong. I didn't mind the Barenboim Ninth actually. I think you can get away with his heavy-handed style in that work, where it builds up and finally bubbles over. You could call that more Furtwanglerian than most, I suppose, because WF kept a firm hand on the tiller (usually) in that one. Although DB would never try and imitate Furtwangler's crazy frantic scurrying of the last few bars in a million years.

As for Celi. A wonderful Bruckner 4. Everything else I have heard him do sounds like a bad joke. There are lots of his later performances on YouTube and they are just about unbearable. There is something insufferably smug about his music-making. The wind and brass players must have needed oxygen masks after one of his concerts.

[jayne lee wilson]

Celibidache's late Munich recordings are somewhat sui generis, even within his own career, especially the Bruckner.

But the DG boxes featuring the SWR Stuttgart RSO (recordings from the late 1970s) show an artist with both a wonderful ear for balance, textural beauty and the longer-term architectural view. These Bruckner recordings are by no means extreme in tempi or timings, and the Ravel/Debussy set is - mostly - a marvel of inspired recreation. "Daybreak" from the Daphnis 2nd suite truly beggars description!

***

AS for the COE, they're just very responsive to their conductor. Their many recordings with Abbado or Harnoncourt reveal a marvellously virtuosic and creative ensemble. Most recently their Schumann cycle with Nezet-Seguin deservedly inspired much critical devotion, including mine! It's tender, lyrical yet full of joyous energy. Freshly-read and above all - very loveable.

[Alison]

It's worth giving the Schubert 9 a second try: somehow once you know what you're not going to get you can concentrate more on the positives. I do agree that there is a lack of warmth and emotion which seems to have been typical of latter day Haitink performances.

I liked the point made above about BH's work with the Orchestra of the Royal Opera House: warmth and affection were such hallmarks back in that era and what a superbly responsive band they became, Haitink very much the master of ear pricking orchestral timbres.

[Alison]

If I recall rightly, Jayne didn't immediately take to the Nezet Schummans !

[jayne lee wilson]

If I recall rightly, Jayne didn't immediately take to the Nezet Schummans !

Oh yes... but the passion burns more fiercely, when a love plays hard-to-get....

[wenotsoira]

Are you in love then Jane?

[Petrushka]

A little late to the party, but here are my thoughts on this Prom.

I'm not sure how it came across on the radio, but for me, in the hall this was as ideal a Schubert 9 as I expect to hear this side of the pearly gates. Too often, this symphony suffers from stodge but here Haitink started as he meant to go on and it had tremendous drive and momentum and - alleluias are in order- he played all repeats except the one in the finale which to my ears sounds contrived and unnecessary. If Haitink thinks so too then I feel on sure ground in this respect. I didn't note any lack of passion or detachment from my seat in 'O' stalls. Haitink seemed to me to be ever so slightly more animated than I've seen him recently yet he remains the master of obtaining maximum response with minimum gesture. A seat was provided for him but he used it for a couple of inter-movement pauses only. He feigned not to notice the applause after the first movement but the miscreants didn't try it again.

Lovely playing from the diminutive Pires in the Mozart concerto ably accompanied by the COE, especially the winds. The Schubert overture was one I've never knowingly heard before and it does indeed owe a large debt to Rossini to who it could easily have been attributed without my being any the wiser. An excellent pipe-opener, though.

All in all, a most satisfying Prom and we got John Chimes on timpani to add to the pleasure.

[Ferretfancy]

A little late to the party, but here are my thoughts on this Prom.

I'm not sure how it came across on the radio, but for me, in the hall this was as ideal a Schubert 9 as I expect to hear this side of the pearly gates. Too often, this symphony suffers from stodge but here Haitink started as he meant to go on and it had tremendous drive and momentum and - alleluias are in order- he played all repeats except the one in the finale which to my ears sounds contrived and unnecessary. If Haitink thinks so too then I feel on sure ground in this respect. I didn't note any lack of passion or detachment from my seat in 'O' stalls. Haitink seemed to me to be ever so slightly more animated than I've seen him recently yet he remains the master of obtaining maximum response with minimum gesture. A seat was provided for him but he used it for a couple of inter-movement pauses only. He feigned not to notice the applause after the first movement but the miscreants didn't try it again.

Lovely playing from the diminutive Pires in the Mozart concerto ably accompanied by the COE, especially the winds. The Schubert overture was one I've never knowingly heard before and it does indeed owe a large debt to Rossini to who it could easily have been attributed without my being any the wiser. An excellent pipe-opener, though.

All in all, a most satisfying Prom and we got John Chimes on timpani to add to the pleasure.

I'm in complete agreement Petrushka ( see my# 54)

I wonder sometimes, quite apart from all the other advantages of actually being there, I wonder whether standing in the hall helps to aid concentration and thence enjoyment. I certainly find that my mind wanders more when listening in comfort at home.

[Roehre]

....The Schubert overture was one I've never knowingly heard before and it does indeed owe a large debt to Rossini to who it could easily have been attributed without my being any the wiser....

the two Overtures in Italian Style were Schubert's "answer" to Rossini and meant to demonstrate he could do a "Rossini" too, hence also the title. The italian composer's music was a hype in Vienna then, much to the chagrin of Schubert and Beethoven.

[Petrushka]

the burbling Mr Ibragimova .

Sorry, who's this? Does this mean my chances with the delightful Miss Ibragimova are doomed to failure?

[teamsaint]

Sorry, who's this? Does this mean my chances with the delightful Miss Ibragimova are doomed to failure?

I think her romantic needs are already being serviced, Pet.

But faint heart etc......

[Petrushka]

I think her romantic needs are already being serviced, Pet.

But faint heart etc......

And you wondered why I chose Petrushka for my nom-de-forum?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And you wondered why I chose Petrushka for my nom-de-forum?

I don't think we'd want Moor of Tom Service, Pet!

[Nick Armstrong]

Sorry, who's this? Does this mean my chances with the delightful Miss Ibragimova are doomed to failure?

You may by now have heard this death-knell to your hopes, on the solo Bach thread...

Glad the concert was such a success in the hall!

[Darkbloom]

I'm in complete agreement Petrushka ( see my# 54)

I wonder sometimes, quite apart from all the other advantages of actually being there, I wonder whether standing in the hall helps to aid concentration and thence enjoyment. I certainly find that my mind wanders more when listening in comfort at home.

I have sometimes found it work the opposite way for me. I remember listening to the Barenboim VPO Bruckner 4 at the Proms where they were all over the place for a few moments in the first movement, but I didn't notice it at the time. How I could I have missed it was amazing as it was as clear as day on the broadcast. You often notice things that you will never pick up at home (eg. that the VPO and Barenboim clearly weren't getting on well that day) but sometimes (especially on hot days) you can't concentrate as much as you would like. I also remember being underwhelmed by a Haitink Brucnker 7 with the Dresden Staatskapelle, only to go home and be amazed at how good it was on the radio.

The Schubert 9 will definitely have to go on my 're-listen' list though.