Prom 49: Mahler – Symphony No. 6 (22.08.15)

[ahinton]

Or even paying attention, if he thinks "Major Minor" are "the first two chords"! (The first nine bars are an extended A minor chord - the Horns playing two such very loud at their very first entry in bar 6) followed by F major. The important A major - A minor juxtaposing (so important to the whole symphony) until bars 59 - 60, heralding the beginning of the Transition. Perhaps Hs believes that "Mahler did Not write" the first 55 bars, either?

Indeed. Perhaps they were actually composed by Anna Magdalena Bach. You are of course correct in what you write and, of course, the tonic major to tonic minor here has a precendent in the opening movement of Mahler's Second Symphony.

Horenstein was one of the very greatest of Mahler conductors. (Well, that sentence works also without the "Mahler" - but he was especially good with this repertoire.)

The most electrifying performance of Mahler's Seventh Symphony that it has ever been my pleasure and privilege to hear was in RFH in the mid-60s conducted by Horenstein whose performance cast aside all doubts and problems that at times beset that particular work; incredible!

[Keraulophone]

Unfortunately both recordings, in their CD manifestations, now command prohibitive prices

For vinyl fanciers, s/h Unicorn LPs are available for around £25 in UK, and from $15 on Nonesuch from USA though p+p is expensive...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RHS-320-1-Mahler-Symphony-No-6-Stockholm-Philharmonic-Jascha-Horenstein-2LP/321821823966?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33098%26meid%3D59b570ccba4b405787abe1f8af78ad7f%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D231626612862

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The most electrifying performance of Mahler's Seventh Symphony that it has ever been my pleasure and privilege to hear was in RFH in the mid-60s conducted by Horenstein whose performance cast aside all doubts and problems that at times beset that particular work; incredible!

A late '60s performance is captured on this recording:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00004XPKG

... I have it in an earlier CD incarnation - it was (with Boulez utterly different studio recording) my favoured recording of this work for many years until Caliban brought my attention to Gielen with the BPO on Testament.

[Bryn]

For vinyl fanciers, s/h Unicorn LPs are available for around £25 in UK, and from $15 on Nonesuch from USA though p+p is expensive...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RHS-320-1-Ma...3D231626612862

I now see that the Stockholm/Horenstein Mahler 6 can also be found on iTunes (c. 261kbps m4a (aac) for £2.99. Should offer marginally better sound than the Amazon mp3s.

[HighlandDougie]

It was Richard F who first drew my attention to this website

http://www.donaldclarkemusicbox.com/horenstein/

which provides further background about the origins of JH's Mahler issues. Not Mahler, but I can confirm that JH's Bruckner 5th (one of my favourite performances of one of my favourite symphonies) sounds much better in its BBC Legends incarnation than in the earlier quasi-bootleg issue I have.

[BBMmk2]

My favourite of Mahler's works. I wouldn't be missing anything, if I didn't catch up on this one?

[Roehre]

It was Richard F who first drew my attention to this website

http://www.donaldclarkemusicbox.com/horenstein/

which provides further background about the origins of JH's Mahler issues. Not Mahler, but I can confirm that JH's Bruckner 5th (one of my favourite performances of one of my favourite symphonies) sounds much better in its BBC Legends incarnation than in the earlier quasi-bootleg issue I have.

Many thanks for sharing with us, HD

[edashtav]

Nelsons and his Boston orchestra started the first movement with terrific energy and I was delighted with the tempo – neither the weary wending in the manner of Barbirolli nor rushed which destroys detail. The orchestra were on tip-top form with crisp rhythms and a marvellous pesante heaviness in those Ländler moments that need to sound full of juicy thwacks on lederhosen. Warmer moments that arrive with “Alma’s” tune were played with relaxation and affection but without becoming too saccharin.

I don’t have strong feelings re movement order but the sweep & impetus and compelling arc that Nelsons produced from the first movement predicated, in my mind, a more relaxed movement to follow so I was surprised when that was denied.

Some great solo work from the oh-so-busy first horn was joined by excellent contributions from all the principals – Mahler’s 6th is no Boston tea party for any player in the band and all stayed focused and alert to the bitter end where the major-minor tension that drives the work becomes a tocsin.

The CBSO’s loss is New England’s gain. 9/10

[richardfinegold]

Not only with Walter: Mahler 6 was a work which didn't go well with Mengelberg either.
The work was prepared by him for the Amsterdam premiere to be conducted by Mahler in 1906, but, as at a late stage Mahler was unable to conduct because of obligations elsewhere, the concert was cancelled. Despite the preparations the work was not done under Mengelberg himself.

It was the last work to be given its Amsterdam first performance (under Mengelberg) in the Concertgebouw, in 1916, and after two performances he only conducted it only once more, during the world's first Mahler-festival in Amsterdam in 1920.
It was especially the scherzo which Mengelberg disliked.

Before WW2 it was only played again once more in the Concertgebouw: in 1931 under Klemperer.

For comparison: 1, 4 and LvdE every season between 1921 and 1940; 2 and 5 approx every other season; 3, 7 , 8 and 9 quite regularly, only 6 and Adagio 10 went once.

Klemperer hated the 7th, and refered to it as a "mistake". It's interesting that even GM's most fervid champions could have blind spots about various works. Now that we have a performance history of 50 years or so (where GM's music has been at the forefront of Symphonic programming), I wonder if their reactions would be the same today.

[richardfinegold]

My "O", too (I'm not so "H" ) - Horenstein was one of the very greatest of Mahler conductors. (Well, that sentence works also without the "Mahler" - but he was especially good with this repertoire.)

Horenstein was my gateway into Mahler. His recording of the 1 wasn't the first that I heard but it stuck with me and it's still the version that I reach for, despite having added another dozen or so. Ditto with 3, and his Vox recordings of 9 and Das Lied were seminal for me as well.
I am glad that I had purchased 3, 6 and 7 on CD when they were first issued, as they seem to be fetching silly prices on Amazon. I did have to pay for an entire Mahler box to reaquire the 4th, which I had on a horribly dim sounding lp, but it was worth it.
I had in the past week acquired all of the JH Beethoven (3,5,6, &9)on Vox and am enjoying playing through them.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Horenstein was my gateway into Mahler. His recording of the 1 wasn't the first that I heard but it stuck with me and it's still the version that I reach for, despite having added another dozen or so. Ditto with 3, and his Vox recordings of 9 and Das Lied were seminal for me as well.
I am glad that I had purchased 3, 6 and 7 on CD when they were first issued, as they seem to be fetching silly prices on Amazon. I did have to pay for an entire Mahler box to reaquire the 4th, which I had on a horribly dim sounding lp, but it was worth it.
I had in the past week acquired all of the JH Beethoven (3,5,6, &9)on Vox and am enjoying playing through them.

In my teenage years, I remember a Gramophone catalogue that listed only one version of the 6th - a budget-priced Saga recording (still available but not on Saga). How things have changed.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Klemperer hated the 7th, and refered to it as a "mistake".

Really? Where/when did he say this? In his Conversations with Peter Heyworth, he expresses no opinion of the Seventh Symphony, and affectionately recalls his working with Mahler on the premiere. (And OK isn't backward in coming forward with his opinions of other works in these discussions!) He also recorded the work - a performance that might well give substance to the idea that OK hated the work, but odd that he was persuaded to record a work for which he had no sympathy.

[HighlandDougie]

Unfortunately both recordings, in their CD manifestations, now command prohibitive prices via amazon.co.uk. However, the Stockholm PO recording may be found on Youtube (though the HE-AAC data rate is only 96kbps). There is also a new download option via Amazon as a set of four c. 256kbps mp3s for £3.16. I'm sure other download sites also have that recording available.

I don't know whether this recent release is "licensed" officially (I have a Scribendum set of Mravinsky performances which is absolutely fine) but a substantial part of JH's Unicorn legacy (no Robert Simpson 3rd, alas) has been re-released as follows:

http://www.scribendumrecordings.com/our-shop/4583959841/sc511-5cd---the-art-of-horenstein/9676694

[Darkbloom]

My favourite of Mahler's works. I wouldn't be missing anything, if I didn't catch up on this one?

No, I don't think so. I actually thought the trumpet was the best thing about this performance, which managed to occasionally galvanise the orchestra into moving beyond their comfort zone. I felt Nelsons was doing his best with a group of musicians (like the Cleveland last year) who have bags of technical ability but are unwilling to give us any passion. That is too often the case with American orchestras in my experience. The contrast with Nelsons and the CBSO earlier in the season could not have been more obvious. The too sudden applause at the end was an eloquent commentary on the way that this performance did not grip the hall.

I wondered how I would feel going to the Bach after Mahler's most intense symphony. I need hardly have worried, as this was the least moving account I have ever heard live, and I have heard many. Nelsons is a wonderful conductor, but the BSO clearly don't trust him enough to follow his lead all the way, the playing was too often self-contained and self-regarding. Only in the moments leading up the first hammer blow and shortly thereafter did I feel that we were getting something that Nelsons was really trying to inspire.

Very disappointing, although interesting to read the comments of people listening on the radio.

[ahinton]

It was Richard F who first drew my attention to this website

http://www.donaldclarkemusicbox.com/horenstein/

which provides further background about the origins of JH's Mahler issues. Not Mahler, but I can confirm that JH's Bruckner 5th (one of my favourite performances of one of my favourite symphonies) sounds much better in its BBC Legends incarnation than in the earlier quasi-bootleg issue I have.

Agreed about Bruckner's Fifth Symphony in many particulars - not quite his greatest work but undoubtedly one of the great 19th century symphonies by anyone's standards.

I know of Donald Clarke's musicbox though some very kind comments that he made several years ago at http://www.donaldclarkemusicbox.com/...Q9MjQmeT0yMDEw