Prom 45: RPO/Dutoit (19.08.15)

[Serial_Apologist]

Ah! So that's where he gets the courage to tackle the Building a Library lists for us, is it?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It may surprise posters to know that I don't speak German, but I'm OK at French and I'm learning Spanish.

[Nick Armstrong]

No takers for this....?

Was only able to hear the first movement of the Mozart (good, no-nonsense musicality, and interesting to hear the Britten cadenza - not sure I buy it, but interesting nonetheless) and the slow movement of DSCH15 (orchestral soloists not up to it, I thought - uncomfortable listening, in the wrong way).

[Beef Oven!]

No takers for this....?

Was only able to hear the first movement of the Mozart (good, no-nonsense musicality, and interesting to hear the Britten cadenza - not sure I buy it, but interesting nonetheless) and the slow movement of DSCH15 (orchestral soloists not up to it, I thought - uncomfortable listening, in the wrong way).

I listened on the radio. Just DSCH 15. I found the first movement quite brisk, though not an issue in itself, but it lost a little of its impact without that extra nano-second of waft - doesn't quite play on the nerves in the same way!

The adagio seemed a little scrappy to me. Wouldn't have minded attending though, if I'd had the time.

One to forget about and move on, IMV.

[edashtav]

I heard tiny bits of this Curate's Egg of a programme: the first movement of the Debussy/H.Busser that was small beer pleasantly played. I liked the soloist in the 3rd movement of the Mozartr Concerto and then felt she flowered in her encore: Chopin Nocturne op 27/2 in Db. Elisabeth Leonskaja's performance was both aristocratic and tender, her control of line and form were superb. Perhaps, the best piano playing I've heard during this year's Proms.

I tried the Shostakovich but turned it off. As Caliban points out those extraordinary, exposed solos rarely sounded secure and became a source of irritation.

I wonder whether the annual RPO / Charles Dutoit Prom has passed its sell-by date?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Having given the poor man a chance and listened to his idea of the Shostakovich #15 ... well, even I'd expected better than this! Definitely one to (try to) forget.

[Nick Armstrong]

.... Elisabeth Leonskaja's performance was both aristocratic and tender, her control of line and form were superb. Perhaps, the best piano playing I've heard during this year's Proms.

I tried the Shostakovich but turned it off. As Caliban points out those extraordinary, exposed solos rarely sounded secure and became a source of irritation.

Another concert where one wonders if the Guardian critic was at the same event...

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/aug/20/prom-45-rpo-dutoit-review-dexterity-and-refinement

"...we were reminded first and foremost that this is ultimately a symphony of interwoven instrumental solos, at once sparse and virtuosic. The RPO played it with great dexterity and refinement.

The evening’s first half, however, was less satisfactory..."

[jayne lee wilson]

After a series of well-engineered HDs proms, it's a shame to report that this one suffered badly from those artificial perspectives dynamic compression (more typical of FM) can impose. So in the second movement the trombone solos were too loud, the main climax not loud enough. Db pizzicatos blurred and boomed. In the second allegretto the winds shrieked as if in my own listening room, and the final coda was absurdly boosted. Was the holiday relief at the controls?

Interpretatively the first movement was promising - brisk and with a degree of tempo variabile cartoonish vividness in its characterisation. Thereafter, I found the technical shortcomings too distracting to listen musically, trying fruitlessly to adjust playback settings as I was....

[edashtav]

After a series of well-engineered HDs proms, it's a shame to report that this one suffered badly from those artificial perspectives dynamic compression (more typical of FM) can impose. So in the second movement the trombone solos were too loud, the main climax not loud enough. Db pizzicatos blurred and boomed. In the second allegretto the winds shrieked as if in my own listening room, and the final coda was absurdly boosted. Was the holiday relief at the controls?

Interpretatively the first movement was promising - brisk and with a degree of tempo variabile cartoonish vividness in its characterisation. Thereafter, I found the technical shortcomings too distracting to listen musically, trying fruitlessly to adjust playback settings as I was....

How about a Summer Holiday in South Ken., Jayne, using all your knowledge and experience to relieve the relief in the White Van? I'm sure we For3 boarders would "crowd fund" your trip south. You could reduce Petroc to a whisper and ensure that Katie's dancing shoes take her to Blackpool and a new life away from the Proms. And... once the music starts, our musical lives will be safe in your hands. Go for it!

[Bryn]

After a series of well-engineered HDs proms, it's a shame to report that this one suffered badly from those artificial perspectives dynamic compression (more typical of FM) can impose. So in the second movement the trombone solos were too loud, the main climax not loud enough. Db pizzicatos blurred and boomed. In the second allegretto the winds shrieked as if in my own listening room, and the final coda was absurdly boosted. Was the holiday relief at the controls?

Not quite sure what you are getting at here. There are none of the tell-tale signs of dynamic compression in the overall wave profile of the HD Sound version of Last night's 15th. Indeed, the dynamic range is very wide indeed, peaking at a dangerously high -0.5db.



That's just the symphony itself, from just before the first note to just before the first clap of the final applause.

[Alison]

Dutoit recorded a respectable 15th in Montreal but hardly strikes me as a natural DSCH interpreter.

The RPO seems to have a terribly low profile these days.

[edashtav]

Dutoit recorded a respectable 15th in Montreal but hardly strikes me as a natural DSCH interpreter.

The RPO seems to have a terribly low profile these days.

Sadly, your two points are accurate, Alison.

[EdgeleyRob]

Well,easily pleased of Cheshire thought the DSCH was more than ok.

I thought the Mozart was very run of the mill,and yes those cadenzas are very strange.

Never been a big fan of this concerto,the finale always seems a bit long winded,even more so in this performance.

[Beef Oven!]

Never been a big fan of this concerto,the finale always seems a bit long winded,even more so in this performance.

I caught up with it on the iPlayer and I thought it was longwinded, too.

[jayne lee wilson]

Not quite sure what you are getting at here. There are none of the tell-tale signs of dynamic compression in the overall wave profile of the HD Sound version of Last night's 15th. Indeed, the dynamic range is very wide indeed, peaking at a dangerously high -0.5db.



That's just the symphony itself, from just before the first note to just before the first clap of the final applause.

Bryn - I've just listened back to the HDs 320 kbps version of this DSCH 15 as currently available on iPlayer. I was soon aware that this sounded very different from the live relay: the depth perspectives were back, the dynamic range natural and - as you measured - satisfyingly wide. The climaxes of the 1st, 3rd and final movements sounded very powerful, just as they should, and the final coda in proper dynamic proportion - restrained in its tensions, apart from that brief xylophone decrescendo just before the close. That 2nd movement trombone solo was no longer oppressively close; the winds were placed well back in the large acoustic, those 2nd allegretto shrieks piercing but spaciously resonant... and so on. Had it sounded this way live I would not have been darting about between JRMC, R3 Homepage and FM, or trying different dac filters, but settled back to enjoy the webcast.
Which sounds very enjoyable on iPlayer tonight, exploiting the large acoustic well. (And with enough interpretative interest to draw me back again soon...). So I can only conclude that there was some real-time level-adjustment applied to the live relay, thankfully absent from this recording.

(I've not heard this obvious a discrepancy before, though I have heard over-obvious level adjustments on other HDs live relays (which tend not to be the ones you seek out to listen again! So...).
When I made recordings of FM to metal or chrome cassettes through the 1990s I often heard differences between the live relay and a later repeat. And I became annoyed at those aforementioned compressive effects - to the extent that I gave up on Radio 3 concerts altogether after the 2005 Proms, only returning when the first 192kbps aac stream became available in 2009 - dynamics at last!)

Bryn - I don't expect you to trust my ears as much as I do, but in the absence of a time machine all I can say is: to these ears, through this system, that is how it sounded on Wednesday evening, and this is how it sounds tonight.