Prom 40: Sibelius – Symphonies 1 & 2 (15.08.15)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:30
Royal Albert Hall

The BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and Thomas Dausgaard, live at the BBC Proms, in an all-Sibelius programme.


Sibelius: Finlandia
Sibelius: Symphony No. 1 in E minor, Op 39
Symphony No. 2 in D major

BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra
Thomas Dausgaard (conductor)

Celebrations for Sibelius's 150th anniversary continue with a complete symphony cycle, launched by the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and its new Chief Conductor Designate, Thomas Dausgaard. The First Symphony is prefaced by the nationalistic tone-poem Finlandia, its singing central melody composed with an ear to mass appeal as well as to political protest. The First Symphony is no apprentice work; although drawing on the legacy of Tchaikovsky and Brahms, Sibelius created something distinctively and evocatively Nordic. Still more sophisticated is the Second, often heard as a musical shout of grief and rage at Russian oppression.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sibelius 1 is often criticised - unjustly, I think- for being structurally weak. I see no evidence of this, not even in the finale, which has greater share of critics' venom.

[Serial_Apologist]

Sibelius 1 is often criticised - unjustly, I think- for being structurally weak. I see no evidence of this, not even in the finale, which has greater share of critics' venom.

It has been cited as strongly influenced by Tchaikovsky - and Bruckner in the Scherzo theme. Could account for some of the criticism, given the strong independent mind manifest in the composer's mature works.

[Roehre]

Sibelius 1 is often criticised - unjustly, I think- for being structurally weak. I see no evidence of this, not even in the finale, which has greater share of critics' venom.

Bruckner's influence as well as Tchaikovky's is evident. But so is Wagner's in the slow mvt.
Sibelius didn't create a symphony in which the symphonic argument ends in an all-embracing finale, but ends the work with a simple fantasy. What's wrong with that?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sibelius didn't create a symphony in which the symphonic argument ends in an all-embracing finale, but ends the work with a simple fantasy. What's wrong with that?

Nothing at all - and now that you mention it, I can see similarities between this finale and Tchaikovsky's fantasy "The Tempest".

[jayne lee wilson]

PROM 40. SIBELIUS SYMPHONY NO.1. BBCSSO/DAUSGAARD.

With clearly-articulated & full-toned strings, with powerful early climaxes topped by brilliant brasses, this began well. But I was soon a little dismayed at the lack of inner life at lower dynamic levels - rather bland and literal, for instance, in those descending wind figures later on, which should be atmospherically tensed against the yearning romantic melody which finally achieves a climax free of them. The coda seemed laboured at first, not well coordinated with some slips and imprecisions in the brass, and not really savage enough in its conclusion.
Those massed strings were richly & romantically fulfilling in the andante, but for me, the music didn't flow naturally enough, and the faster passages were a bit stiff and metrical.

Well, IS it me, I wondered, as the scherzo began...I wanted those woodwinds to sauce it up a little, and felt relieved at the greater warmth and poetry from bassoon and horn in the trio; then, Dausgaard produced a great surge of pace to end the movement, starting the finale attacca....
This was better - more thrills from those glinting brasses, Dausgaard going breakneck through the faster sections, then giving a grand Romantic emphasis to The Big Tune.
But the overall impression remained of a conductor failing to inspire his band, relying too much on driven speed and power from brass, strings and percussion, not encouraging enough character or individuality in the many wind solos (though the solo clarinettist did well); and with a lack of natural tempi relation and variation - too many obvious gear-changes, not much fluidity of phrase.

Some good moments, and points of interest in this reading, but technically and interpretatively, a little loose.

(Heard on HDs via JRMC. Well-balanced, if slightly contained, less open and dynamic, than many other webcasts this year.)

[Old Grumpy]

Heard it in the car on return from a trip to God's own county...
... liked what I heard (but not in HDS)

Intersting contextual interval talk (Proms Extra) hosted by SM-P too.

OG

[Serial_Apologist]

PROM 40. SIBELIUS SYMPHONY NO.1. BBCSSO/DAUSGAARD.

With clearly-articulated & full-toned strings, with powerful early climaxes topped by brilliant brasses, this began well. But I was soon a little dismayed at the lack of inner life at lower dynamic levels - rather bland and literal, for instance, in those descending wind figures later on, which should be atmospherically tensed against the yearning romantic melody which finally achieves a climax free of them. The coda seemed laboured at first, not well coordinated with some slips and imprecisions in the brass, and not really savage enough in its conclusion.
Those massed strings were richly & romantically fulfilling in the andante, but for me, the music didn't flow naturally enough, and the faster passages were a bit stiff and metrical.

Well, IS it me, I wondered, as the scherzo began...I wanted those woodwinds to sauce it up a little, and felt relieved at the greater warmth and poetry from bassoon and horn in the trio; then, Dausgaard produced a great surge of pace to end the movement, starting the finale attacca....
This was better - more thrills from those glinting brasses, Dausgaard going breakneck through the faster sections, then giving a grand Romantic emphasis to The Big Tune.
But the overall impression remained of a conductor failing to inspire his band, relying too much on driven speed and power from brass, strings and percussion, not encouraging enough character or individuality in the many wind solos (though the solo clarinettist did well); and with a lack of natural tempi relation and variation - too many obvious gear-changes, not much fluidity of phrase.

Some good moments, and points of interest in this reading, but technically and interpretatively, a little loose.

(Heard on HDs via JRMC. Well-balanced, if slightly contained, less open and dynamic, than many other webcasts this year.)

Did you miss the second then, Jayne? Or can we await your most valued views tomorrow?

[edashtav]

PROM 40. SIBELIUS SYMPHONY NO.1. BBCSSO/DAUSGAARD.
[...]
But I was soon a little dismayed at the lack of inner life at lower dynamic levels - rather bland and literal, for instance, in those descending wind figures later on, which should be atmospherically tensed against the yearning romantic melody which finally achieves a climax free of them. The coda seemed laboured at first, not well coordinated with some slips and imprecisions in the brass, and not really savage enough in its conclusion.
Those massed strings were richly & romantically fulfilling in the andante, but for me, the music didn't flow naturally enough, and the faster passages were a bit stiff and metrical.
[...]
But the overall impression remained of a conductor failing to inspire his band, relying too much on driven speed and power from brass, strings and percussion, not encouraging enough character or individuality in the many wind solos (though the solo clarinettist did well); and with a lack of natural tempi relation and variation - too many obvious gear-changes, not much fluidity of phrase.

Some good moments, and points of interest in this reading, but technically and interpretatively, a little loose. [...]

Yes, Jayne, a curate's egg of a performance, neither fish nor fowl... I wonder whether Dausgaard was aware that the symphony was prefacing a cycle and that he wanted to ensure that it was part and parcel of the canon and didn't sound like Tchaikovsky's 7th or 8th symphony. For me, in playing down many of the symphony's more romantic elements, the conductor destroyed its ebb and flow - it became a series of moments that failed to cohere or build a greater structure.

I thought the interval talk was illuminating and useful but business, and a lack of desire, took me away from the 2nd which is not my favourite Sibelius symphony.

[jayne lee wilson]

Did you miss the second then, Jayne? Or can we await your most valued views tomorrow?

Sorry, I'm with Ed on that one - the 2nd is in Room 101 for me; but the door is never locked, the contents never vaporised, so, one day...

[edashtav]

Sorry, I'm with Ed on that one - the 2nd is in Room 101 for me; but the door is never locked, the contents never vaporised, so, one day...

Much the same here - I have no CD of the 2nd and my miniature score is relegated to my "unloved, unsorted & uncatalogued" shelf. Being a son of 2 librarians, I shan't condemn it to "vaping" but part of me wishes that someone would offer to give it a loving, "leafing" home.

I must bite the bullet. The first to msg me an address will receive it!

[Serial_Apologist]

Sorry, I'm with Ed on that one - the 2nd is in Room 101 for me; but the door is never locked, the contents never vaporised, so, one day...

Fair enough . The second may not be characteristic Sibelius, apart possibly from its first movement, and the finale with its boring build-up and bombastic ending gets on my nerves; but I just love the slow movement, which for me contains some of the most wonderful yearning harmonies of any music I know.

[Dave2002]

I thought it was really good, even from high up in thr Circle. I would have liked a bit more bite from the trumpets in places, though in the first there was some very stylish clarinet playing.

It occurred to me both during and after the performance that Sibelius was (perhaps) doing something a bit new. Unlike Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven, where (mostly) strands of music are in some ways "in sync", there are parts where the strands just drift apart and give an amazing sort of indeterminate effect. this can give rise to added tension, which some may like, and others (Jayne?) would consign the works to Room 101.

[Daniel]

It occurred to me both during and after the performance that Sibelius was (perhaps) doing something a bit new. Unlike Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven, where (mostly) strands of music are in some ways "in sync", there are parts where the strands just drift apart and give an amazing sort of indeterminate effect. this can give rise to added tension

I feel pretty similarly, Dave. His symphonies often feel like energies in weather fronts to me, twisting themselves this way and that trying to balance themselves out.
The streaks of Tchaikovsky and the weird clashes of styles and metre in the 2nd for example, seem to be part of the flotsam thrown up by the colliding energies. Hysteria often seems to bubble up and threaten to break out of the music, as it does so thrillingly in Tchaikovsky sometimes, but Sibelius seems to fight to contain the tension more than Tchaikovsky, and the effort of doing so leads to an undercurrent of turbulence and the (exhilarating!) dislocation of themes you mention.

The 2nd Symphony can feel meandering and a little bloated structurally at times, and I have some sympathy with SA's complaint about the ending, but I am so persuaded by it elsewhere, that I seem to love the warts along with the rugged beauties.

I would have liked a bit more bite from the trumpets

I hope they didn't go on to play any Bach, because if their Bach was even worse than their bite, that would've been awful.

(That's weird, I don't seem to ever recall seeing my coat flying through the air towards me like that before.)

[Lat-Literal]

I really liked that performance of the 2nd.

Not as much as the 3rd but still.

I'm coming round a bit to Sibelius I think.

But then I was late on Bob Dylan too.