Prom 16: Ibiza/Cobblers Prom (29.07.15)

[MrGongGong]

I suppose one criticism might be that every classical Prom is 'inclusive' - anyone can go if they're interested: any age, any background. But the Radio 1 Prom seems targeted on a particular (young) audience and by definition is not inclusive. On reasoned arguments alone it "shouldn't" be there, at a festival of classical music. But it is and I can't say that, other than thinking it's a bit of a silly gimmick, it worries me too much.

I do feel the Proms have become bloated and would be improved by being trimmed.

Some of the people who go will see an orchestra, it will be composed of brilliant musicians.
Some of the people who go will wonder where that sound came from seeing people playing acoustic instruments (with amplification)
Some of the people who go will enjoy hearing this
Some of the people who go will then explore what this ensemble does the rest of the time
Some of the people who go will maybe realise that many of the musicians are the same ones who play for other orchestras

and so on

Jon Lord ? (Not my fave piece either) BUT that's what the Proms have always done

[MrGongGong]

The OAE doesn't have a chip on its shoulder.

OK

How about the Berlin Phil ?

[french frank]

Some of the people who go will enjoy hearing this

Oh … I hadn't thought of that

"We at HO HQ are delighting in the fact that we get to create a rave in the Albert Hall with Pete Tong at the BBC Proms = weirdest musical experience to date!

Expect twisted take-downs of Orbital, Frankie Knuckles, Robert Miles, Moby, Fat Boy Slim, plus widescreen orchestral reworks of Ame, Ten Walls, Todd Terje, and loads more. There will also be twelve smoke machines, a box of glowsticks, three laser pens, and a tequila girl rummaging about the violin section."

Yes, I do see what you mean, but I don't think any of this makes it an 'inclusive' experience - which was what was being suggested.

[doversoul1]

humm

Playing sessions is what many "orchestral" musicians do, all the time.
Another colleague who specialises in playing complex new music for many well known ensembles used to do regular gigs with The Spice Girls and Boyzone. It always struck me as a bit amusing that her week would go something like

Monday: Huddersfield
Tuesday: Teaching postgrad at Music college
Wednesday: New Fernyhough quartet
Thursday: Spice Girls at Wembley
Friday: Philharmonia

etc etc

The idea that somehow this is a terrible injustice is a bit off really.
As is the one that somehow there should be some "reciprocal action" which comes across as pedantic

NO ONE is going to take Beethoven away from those who love it AND many of those who do ALSO love dance music.

Tong is a bit mainstream for my tastes in dance music, a bit like G&S compared to Wagner

What has professional/jobbing/earning musicians do got to do with what the Proms should or shouldn’t include? Isn’t that what most / a lot of professional musician do anyway?

Besides, if you asked, I expect a lot of members here would give you their listening diaries just as varied as your colleague’s work diary. This isn’t about individual listeners’ taste. It is about the Proms which is a festival of classical music whose concerts are broadcast on radio3.

If the BBC is serious about being ‘inclusive’ by including club dance music or ‘so-called New Classic’, why doesn’t it programme that music with the main works along with the new commissions and/or short chamber works?

What I can’t see is, whom does the BBC want to include into which music?

[Beef Oven!]

I do feel the Proms have become bloated and would be improved by being trimmed.

Let's have all Proms until further notice, comprised of music that has never been performed at the Proms before.

[MrGongGong]

What has professional/jobbing/earning musicians do got to do with what the Proms should or shouldn’t include? Isn’t that what most / a lot of professional musician do anyway?

As has been pointed out countless times, the Proms have always included a diverse range of musics.
Why no electroacoustic music?

[doversoul1]

As has been pointed out countless times, the Proms have always included a diverse range of musics.
Why no electroacoustic music?

1. So what has what someone you know plays or listens to got to do with what the Proms should or shouldn't include? Do please answer this, so that we can be sure that you understand the point of the discussion.

2. As has been pointed out countless times, the Proms have always included a diverse range of music that is broadly regarded* as classical/art music, including light music. There seems to have been one exception that is referred to every time this same old argument comes up but that was back in 1970s. Or was it in the 80s? Either way, it has not become a ‘tradition’.

3. Has anyone actually said ‘no electroacoustic music’? Unless by that, you man any music that includes electronic device in its performance.

*If you want to argue about the point of ‘by whom’, please start a new thread.

[MrGongGong]

Some people really do get into a fret don't they.

a diverse range of music that is broadly regarded* as classical/art music

BY whom? (it's not a separate issue)

one exception?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPt4F82nx4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkrsdjJB2s

and so on and so on and so on ......... All good to me

Has anyone actually said ‘no electroacoustic music’?

No, but it would be good to have more of it IMV....

Unless by that, you man any music that includes electronic device in its performance.

No, I mean electroacoustic music


(you don't like links so find one yourself)

It really isn't worth folks getting their blood pressure up about this
I can't stand musicals, fine, have your musical
In many ways the music that this prom contains IS sonically connected to much of the other music that is featured in the Proms but it seems that most folks who object can't be arsed to listen to it.

Beethoven and Mozart will be fine, they aren't the Bengal Tiger and don't need protecting

[Beef Oven!]

Some people really do get into a fret don't they.

Especially Jimi, he really got his teeth into them.

[french frank]

Gongers,

If I may suggest - some of your arguments are complete non sequiturs. (Of the kind "IMV it's daft to say…" when no one has said it).
e.g.

As has been pointed out countless times, the Proms have always included a diverse range of musics.
Why no electroacoustic music?

No one is saying there should not be electroacoustic music.

The idea that somehow this [i.e. a professional musician playing both Ferneyhough and Spice Girls] is a terrible injustice is a bit off really.

You were the first to introduce the idea. I would have thought it reasonable that professional musicians play the music they're paid to play. Amateurs are free to pick and choose, which may be a reflection on those particular musicians who will play, say, hiphop but not Ferneyhough (another form of non reciprocity); or their own compositions but not anyone else's.

[Flosshilde]

I'm please that he's excited. The orchestra appears to have something of an agenda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_Orchestra

Don't all orchestras?

[doversoul1]

Some people really do get into a fret don't they.



BY whom? (it's not a separate issue)

one exception?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmPt4F82nx4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkrsdjJB2s

and so on and so on and so on ......... All good to me




No, but it would be good to have more of it IMV....



No, I mean electroacoustic music


(you don't like links so find one yourself)

It really isn't worth folks getting their blood pressure up about this
I can't stand musicals, fine, have your musical
In many ways the music that this prom contains IS sonically connected to much of the other music that is featured in the Proms but it seems that most folks who object can't be arsed to listen to it.

Beethoven and Mozart will be fine, they aren't the Bengal Tiger and don't need protecting

Re: electroacoustic music

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroacoustic_music

Why do you think I asked you the question?


Re: regarded by whom; this thread is about the Proms and not the definition or perception of what classical music is.

What the Prom should or should not include matters very much to some of us. If it doesn’t matter much to you, kindly keep out of the discussion.

I have no doubt that you can find any amount of sonical connections between any music or noise for that matter, but the Proms are not a lecture room for undergraduates.

There is much more to classical music than Beethoven and Mozart, and there is a lot that needs, if not protecting, promoting.

[Flosshilde]

since the Proms don't have a lot of opportunities for mainstream classical chamber music.

Unfortunately. It's really a festival of 19th & some 20th century main-stream big orchestra music. Chamber music is shunted off into a lunchtime/afternoon ghetto. Perhaps there should be a radical rethink & only have some of the evening concerts in the RAH; others woulkd be in venues suited to smaller ensembles, soloists, opera etc.

[MrGongGong]

What the Prom should or should not include matters very much to some of us. If it doesn’t matter much to you, kindly keep out of the discussion.

You obviously don't like (but I wonder if you have ever heard?) what maestro Tong plays
SO don't listen to it

There is a lot of music that does need promoting

(and sonical isn't a word unless you are referring to this http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sonical)

It's fine
It's only one gig amongst many

[doversoul1]

OK. Rephrased. Any music or for that matter, noise, is sonically connected if you look at it within the framework of your chosen method/theory.

You clearly don’t understand the point of this discussion, so I see no point in continuing.