Prom 16: Ibiza/Cobblers Prom (29.07.15)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And I think that the Vienna Phil (or whoever it is that plays) is probably a rather larger orchestra than the Strausses et al had, so if you're talking about dance music that is played out of context & not in its 'raw' state, you don't have to look much further than that regular in the R3 schedules.

- an excellent point.

[french frank]

The thing is, it got the same kind of review comments as the Urban Classic Prom, where they said the orchestra was little more than a large backing group. If people are dancing (rather than listening to music composed for dance) it really is just a a bit of flummery to think that the music, originally written for electronic instruments, gains anything other than a spurious 'respectability' - its ticket to the RAH - by having an orchestra performing instead. It reduces the argument to 'if it's played by an orchestra, it's classical music.' Hence the very perceptive comment in the Evening Standard review:

"It’s all in a bid to introduce a new audience to the merits of classical music and, if last night’s clientele is anything to go by, it’s working." Um, bringing classical music to a new audience?

Or:

"the classical and dance genres have a couple of important things in common: both are largely instrumental and come jam-packed with crescendos. "

Now there's a man who knows his music!

http://www.standard.co.uk/goingout/music/bbc-proms-2015-late-night-with-bbc-radio-1-review--it-all-goes-right-for-pete-tong-10426230.html

I can't get worked up about it because I think it's laughable.

[french frank]

Or

" Not your average night at The Proms, then, but all the better for it. "

Yep, no classical music.

[Beef Oven!]

Oh dear, we are all really getting our knickers in a twist about this!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh dear, we are all really getting our knickers in a twist about this!

Are you suggesting that Tom Jones should be invited to give a Prom?

[Beef Oven!]

Are you suggesting that Tom Jones should be invited to give a Prom?

Too unusual for folks in here!

[Beef Oven!]

And I think that the Vienna Phil (or whoever it is that plays) is probably a rather larger orchestra than the Strausses et al had, so if you're talking about dance music that is played out of context & not in its 'raw' state, you don't have to look much further than that regular in the R3 schedules.

Excellent observation

[french frank]

Oh dear, we are all really getting our knickers in a twist about this!

Some of us are doing our best to put forward reasoned arguments. Others don't seem to feel the need.

On the point about the Vienna Phil and the NYC:

This will be the concert they used to get Brian Kay to present and which they allowed to be televised (live, I presume)? In other words, even with that we're not speaking of core Proms repertoire, but what has been regularly used on Breakfast as a 'light' item for the 'broader audience'.

And classical music written for the ballet has several differences: the first being that it was never for audience (young or old) participation; the second that when played in the concert hall it has usually been arranged by the same composer as a concert suite for that purpose, and in any case had originally been written for an orchestra.

[doversoul1]

Performance of classical music is almost* by nature out of context and not in its 'raw' state. I don’t think the New Year concert not being in its original context or state is a valid point to justify this prom.

*except for newly commissioned works for a particular performer/concert

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That's called DANCING

Glad you enjoyed it

The arguments in defence of the thudders is becoming ever more hysterical.

Comparing the VPO concerts with this only goes to confirm the superiority of the former.

[MrGongGong]

And classical music written for the ballet has several differences: the first being that it was never for audience (young or old) participation; the second that when played in the concert hall it has usually been arranged by the same composer as a concert suite for that purpose, and in any case had originally been written for an orchestra.

I think you might be digging yourself a hole here

To my ears the bits that worked well were when the acoustic instruments weren't treated as a "backing band".
Lots of missed opportunities in the arrangement department I think (particularly the version of Insomnia where the key riff has the character of a Pizz sample BUT in this version wasn't played by the strings).

[MrGongGong]

The arguments in defence of the thudders is becoming ever more hysterical.

Comparing the VPO concerts with this only goes to confirm the superiority of the former.

That opinion might be more to do with your penchant for dressing up in flowery frocks than the music?

How about some of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mxf-8HkwAMY

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

This will be the concert they used to get Brian Kay to present and which they allowed to be televised (live, I presume)? In other words, even with that we're not speaking of core Proms repertoire, but what has been regularly used on Breakfast as a 'light' item for the 'broader audience'.

But "Big Band" Strauss family is/was "core Proms repertoire" - between 1929 and 1999, there were fourteen "Viennese Evenings" in which Music by the Strauss family played by full symphony orchestras (rather than the smaller authentic ensembles for which the repertoire was written) constituted the entire second half.

[Flosshilde]

Or in the "stead" of Tchaikovsky or Dvorak or Saint-Saens or Verdi or Puccini or Copland or Vivaldi or (continues for ninety-seven pages) or almost anybody

Indeed; just name the composer whose music you don't like very much.

For very good reasons.

For very good reasons.

For very good reasons.

Possibly, but if the music by the others isn't performed very much (or at all) we can't be certain of those reasons. Mozart is the subject of a cult that developed because he fitted with all the romantic tropes - child genius, died in poverty, poisoned by a jealous rival, etc - some (most?) of which weren't true.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Mozart is the subject of a cult that developed because he fitted with all the romantic tropes - child genius, died in poverty, poisoned by a jealous rival, etc - some (most?) of which weren't true.

Maybe - although I've never met anyone who is a member of this "cult": I think the last survivor died in the 1950s. Now that the myths have gone, we're left with the Music - which is amongst the finest achievements of the human imagination in its entire history. This is what is (demonstrably) true.