Prom 16: Ibiza/Cobblers Prom (29.07.15)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As this is the 286th posting about a concert few of us are likely to listen to, may I remind forumites of this evening's Prom at 6.30?

[MrGongGong]

I'm doing nothing of the kind. It's just that the BBC is progressively lumping all music on to Radio 3 and is keeping their other channels just the way they were.
.

I guess you haven't listened to Radio1 lately then?
(or Radio2)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I guess you haven't listened to Radio1 lately then?
(or Radio2)

It's rather difficult not to when it's played all day in shops that want to avoid paying for a music licence.

[MrGongGong]

It's rather difficult not to when it's played all day in shops that want to avoid paying for a music licence.

aaah you so have "heard" it but not "listened" to it then

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

aaah you so have "heard" it but not "listened" to it then

I've tried not to, but I'm one of those unlucky people who find it extremely difficult to filter out unwanted sounds - especially music.

[MrGongGong]

I've tried not to, but I'm one of those unlucky people who find it extremely difficult to filter out unwanted sounds - especially music.

The point is not that R1 & R2 are great BUT they are very different to what they used to be.
R1 is no longer just pumping out chart music but really does encourage and provide a platform for new bands and young musicians.
If only R3 would be more like that then so many of the youngsters that you (and I) have encountered would have more chance of being heard.
Same with the way R2 is with folk music. NOT perfect in any way BUT better than the endless MOR nonsense it used to churn out.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The point is not that R1 & R2 are great BUT they are very different to what they used to be.
R1 is no longer just pumping out chart music but really does encourage and provide a platform for new bands and young musicians.
If only R3 would be more like that then so many of the youngsters that you (and I) have encountered would have more chance of being heard.
Same with the way R2 is with folk music. NOT perfect in any way BUT better than the endless MOR nonsense it used to churn out.

There is indeed food for thought there.

[french frank]

So are you suggesting this is all a bad thing? (it seems like it?)

No, it's not at all a bad thing for the musics that benefit from this 'explosion'. It's a very good thing. It's an even better thing for them that they get a hearing on the Proms and Radio 3. That has never been a matter of disagreement.

And, yes, I wondered when the 'Radio 1 is not what it used to be, nor is Radio 2' argument would crop up. To which the response is 'Nor is Radio 3', which is where the problem lies for some music lovers. Doesn't mean the opinion about the 'explosion' of popular musics taking up most of the BBC's (and the world's) attention doesn't hold good.

It is quite noticeable that you don't exhibit much enthusiasm for music written before about 1900, perhaps even 1950: that might tend to influence your views when classical music is discussed, perhaps?

ferney: if 'popular music styles' shouldn't be lumped together, what about 'classical music styles' being lumped together?
Sorry - not ferney - Gongers

[MrGongGong]

It is quite noticeable that you don't exhibit much enthusiasm for music written before about 1900, perhaps even 1950: that might tend to influence your views when classical music is discussed, perhaps?

Don't really know where you get that idea from? But, yes I'm not that knowledgeable about some of that music.
(though I did work on the ROH/Roundhouse Orfeo and do a couple of things with the OAE last year so you can ask me about those if you like?)
I could tell you some more about Pips Mozart recording if that would ease your angst?

ferney: if 'popular music styles' shouldn't be lumped together, what about 'classical music styles' being lumped together?
Sorry - not ferney - Gongers

Indeed, lumping musics together by genre (or style) is often a very lazy thing regardless of whether the players are dressed like penguins or wearing bin bags

[Beef Oven!]

So you really are lumping ALL 'popular' music in one box?

The dance music that this Prom will play has more to do with Ravel than it does The Stones

Well said.

[teamsaint]

The very frustrating thing about this discussion is that there are so many more platforms for music than there were 20 years ago.
Even the very high profile stations such as the BBc national stations broadcast for much Longer hours, and have plenty of auxiliary platforms to present music.
Even so, space in high profile networks will always be prized and in demand. The Proms season may have grown, ( and if you were looking at it as a Brand you might want to grow it further), but time is still limited, as demonstrated by the vast amount of classical repertoire that never seems to get a sniff of a performance.

In that context, despite the endless variety of music easily available to anybody who can get online, choices ought to be made very carefully.
And that is my problem with some Proms programming. I think what the BBC is doing is all to do with looking as though it is putting new music and audiences together, but actually it is just about their brand.
The Stranglers audience from the late 70's ( Paul Morley, Beef Oven !) has already likely found Classical, contemporary Classical and so on, some of them long ago.Is the middle aged Pete Tong show really going to bring Classical music lovers to quality dance music? I honestly doubt it.
The Pet Shop Boys? Much beloved of BBC managers I bet, but really is that the most interesting use of a Prime Proms slot, when ,for example, World Music which is a R3 staple ( and so has a more natural home at the Proms)doesn't get a look in most years.
Personally, I Would like to see the Proms brand expanded. Beefy's idea of series of " never before performed at the Proms" concerts could be a fantastic vehicle for underexposed music. As Gongers and others have pointed out, much of the joy and value of festivals is encountering the new and unexpected, amongst the loved and valued.
It just doesnt seem to work that way with these rather tokenistic and entirely brand led events. The BBC should use the power of its brand wisely and not just seek to develop it for commercial ends.

[Beef Oven!]

The very frustrating thing about this discussion is that there are so many more platforms for music than there were 20 years ago.
Even the very high profile stations such as the BBc national stations broadcast for much Longer hours, and have plenty of auxiliary platforms to present music.
Even so, space in high profile networks will always be prized and in demand. The Proms season may have grown, ( and if you were looking at it as a Brand you might want to grow it further), but time is still limited, as demonstrated by the vast amount of classical repertoire that never seems to get a sniff of a performance.

In that context, despite the endless variety of music easily available to anybody who can get online, choices ought to be made very carefully.
And that is my problem with some Proms programming. I think what the BBC is doing is all to do with looking as though it is putting new music and audiences together, but actually it is just about their brand.
The Stranglers audience from the late 70's ( Paul Morley, Beef Oven !) has already likely found Classical, contemporary Classical and so on, some of them long ago.Is the middle aged Pete Tong show really going to bring Classical music lovers to quality dance music? I honestly doubt it.
The Pet Shop Boys? Much beloved of BBC managers I bet, but really is that the most interesting use of a Prime Proms slot, when ,for example, World Music which is a R3 staple ( and so has a more natural home at the Proms)doesn't get a look in most years.
Personally, I Would like to see the Proms brand expanded. Beefy's idea of series of " never before performed at the Proms" concerts could be a fantastic vehicle for underexposed music. As Gongers and others have pointed out, much of the joy and value of festivals is encountering the new and unexpected, amongst the loved and valued.
It just doesnt seem to work that way with these rather tokenistic and entirely brand led events. The BBC should use the power of its brand wisely and not just seek to develop it for commercial ends.

Well said.

P.S. Is it just me and Paul Morley?
P.P.S. I first saw The Stranglers live in 1976, so NOT the late 1970s!

[teamsaint]

Well said.

P.S. Is it just me and Paul Morley?
P.P.S. I first saw The Stranglers live in 1976, so NOT the late 1970s!

Yes, And TBF they were knocking around the pub circuit a good bit earlier.
But you know what I mean. It All really started with London Lady, IMO.......

( obviously I didn't mean just you and PM, there must be dozens more like you two ....)

[MrGongGong]

( obviously I didn't mean just you and PM, ther must be dozens more like you two ....)

Really, as many as that?

[doversoul1]

teamsaint #296

… going to bring Classical music lovers to quality dance music

Has the BBC/Radio3 actually said this? I have always understood that popular music proms were introduced as the means of bringing in new audiences to classical music. By their (the BBC) reasoning, that is.

If what you say were the aim and they were honest about it and if the performance were genuine, I wouldn’t too much mind a few pop, rock, dance or whatever Proms but not ‘re-arranged for orchestra’ as if to make it look suitable for the Proms. It’s the pretence (and the lie) that is the worst thing about this and other non-classical / non-Radio3 music Proms.