Prom 16: Ibiza/Cobblers Prom (29.07.15)

[french frank]

a) re the first bit - I've no intention of "getting over it";
b) re the second bit - that's not possible.

I thought Beefy was addressing Floss

[Beef Oven!]

a) re the first bit - I've no intention of "getting over it";
b) re the second bit - that's not possible.

A) Butt out, I wasn't talking to you.
B) Butt out, I wasn't talking to you.
C) Gently bite your tongue.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I thought Beefy was addressing Floss

Within the quotation it wasn't clear.

Neither was it a PM.

Tong made a similar statement.

[french frank]

Well, all I can say is that my understanding of an 'analogy' is broadly this: "Correspondence or resemblance between things, as a basis for reasoning or argumentation." People aren't supposed to reason or argue about the quality of the analogy, but about its general subject. ("Analogy is not proof, but illustration.")

[Flosshilde]

But if the analogy is ridiculous it undermines the argument.

[Beef Oven!]

But if the analogy is ridiculous it undermines the argument.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Ok so anyone who listens to, loves and cares about classical music is a snob, but anyone who feels the same way about any other musical genre isn't.

Well Suzy and your controlling BBC cronies; in that case I'm 100% proud to be a Classical Snob and don't give a damn about what you think, and you know where you can stick that one-way inclusivity. There are actually people out there who are genuinely passionate about Classical Music - so get over it!

Rant over.

[french frank]

But if the analogy is ridiculous it undermines the argument.

Floss - an analogy is not an argument. It doesn't 'argue' that because B is similar (in some vague way) to A, therefore if B is true A must also be true. Your only criticism was that it bore no relevance to the Proms - which is wasn't referring to anyway.

[Beef Oven!]

Ok so anyone who listens to, loves and cares about classical music is a snob, but anyone who feels the same way about any other musical genre isn't..............

.................There are actually people out there who are genuinely passionate about Classical Music - so get over it!

Indeed there are many of us who listen to and love and care about classical music, but don't hive it off from all other musics. The issue is whether or not the Proms should be focused (almost) exclusively on classical music. Many of us classical music fans don't believe it should. It's all subjective in the end.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ok so anyone who listens to, loves and cares about classical music is a snob, but anyone who feels the same way about any other musical genre isn't.

Well Suzy and your controlling BBC cronies; in that case I'm 100% proud to be a Classical Snob and don't give a damn about what you think, and you know where you can stick that one-way inclusivity. There are actually people out there who are genuinely passionate about Classical Music - so get over it!

Rant over.

YES!

This is the issue that Suzy Klein has raised, and it has backfired.

[doversoul1]

Indeed there are many of us who listen to and love and care about classical music, but don't hive it off from all other musics. The issue is whether or not the Proms should be focused (almost) exclusively on classical music. Many of us classical music fans don't believe it should. It's all subjective in the end.

I am genuinely puzzled (i.e. not trying to trip you).

The BBC Proms is a classical music festival. Why shouldn’t it focus on classical music? Where does being subjective come into this? Do you mean the Proms should be simply a music festival? If so, how can it be organised, and will Radio 3 be released from the responsibility if it is no longer a classical music festival? Of if you think more of other types of music should be included, on what criteria should the decision of how much more and the selection of music be made?

(this is me being cynical: if the BBC Proms is no longer how it is known to the world now as the world largest classical music festival, will performers of other types of music be so keen on being included in it?)

[Norrette]

Turning the argument on its head, I'll confess that I used to dance quite a bit in my twenties & thirties and I have a long memory. To replace recorded (electronic, now) music with an orchestra was always a no-no. Somehow it never worked, and I doubt if it will this time. They might sell out in 2015, but I think expectation may have won over experience.

[Beef Oven!]

I am genuinely puzzled, i.e. not trying to trip you.

The BBC Proms is a classical music festival. Why shouldn’t it focus on classical music? Where does being subjective come into this? Do you mean the Proms should be simply a music festival*? If so, how can it be organised, and will Radio 3 be released from the responsibility if it is no longer a classical music festival?

*this is me being cynical: if the BBC Proms is no longer how it is known to the world now, will performers of other types of music be so keen on being included in it?

What I mean is that for some people (myself included), the business of putting music into (sub) categories is meaningless beyond having an easy way to order things, should there be a need to do that. There's just music. Following on from this way of thinking, I can't see why the Proms has to be a purely a classical festival.

When I say 'it's all subjective', I mean that it all boils down to opinion, there's no 'right' answer.

How could it be organised? I suppose the starting point would be to take a view on the various musics that could be programmed and divide it all up between the available dates. Personally speaking, I'd earmark 55% for classical, romantic, baroque and early music, 25% for 20/21st century 'classical' and I'd take soundings for what goes into the remaining 20%.

[Bryn]

Let's hear from Ivan Hewett.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What I mean is that for some people (myself included), the business of putting music into (sub) categories is meaningless beyond having an easy way to order things, should there be a need to do that. There's just music.

Ah, the old and naïve argument that has virtually destroyed art music in the classrooms of this country - basically promoted to make life easier, but in practice emphasising and increasing division. There isn't "just music". There's ear-splittingly loud single-volume noise at the bottom of the pile and it slowly rises from there. The Proms has been far removed from the bottom end, but some would like to see it sink.