Prom 6: Poulenc/Stravinsky/Haydn/Mozart (21.07.15)

[rauschwerk]

I've never been to the RAH, but it seems like an awfully large venue from the pictures that I have seen, and the recordings that I have heard from live performances always make it sound like it is large, blowsy space, just not a good place to hear a concert. What do prommers think?

I have definitely gone off the RAH as time has gone by. In my youth I lived and worked in the London suburbs and could get to stand right at the front. That could be very exciting if the weather was not too hot. The last Prom I attended was the Schoenberg Gurrelieder. I booked seats. It was a hot day and the newly installed aircon was not up to the job. I cursed the BBC for not amplifying the singers as recommended by the composer. I escaped before the end and have not returned.

[Nick Armstrong]

I've never been to the RAH, but it seems like an awfully large venue from the pictures that I have seen, and the recordings that I have heard from live performances always make it sound like it is large, blowsy space, just not a good place to hear a concert. What do prommers think?

I have definitely gone off the RAH as time has gone by.

I share rauschwerk's experience. I've been each year for years, but on fewer and fewer occasions, nowadays more as a social event with music thrown in, than as a purely musical experience. There have been some great musical experiences: from early visits promming, the Bernstein/VPO Mahler 5, and more recently the Manze VW Symphony concert. But you have to be standing or sitting in a very limited range of spots in the hall to get any musical satisfaction.

I'm inclined to save visits there for certain works that really 'work the hall' - Bruckner Symphonies, Sibelius maybe, and the piece I'm going to hear this summer, Turangalîla...

More and more each year, the first concert of the new season back in the Festival Hall comes as a blessed acoustic relief. Mahler 7 this year, late September!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The last Prom I attended was the Schoenberg Gurrelieder. I booked seats. It was a hot day and the newly installed aircon was not up to the job. I cursed the BBC for not amplifying the singers as recommended by the composer.

Well, I never knew that. Amplification of singers would almost certainly encourage me to walk out. Is is so badly orchestrated?

[Petrushka]

For all its faults, and Lord knows there are plenty, I love the Albert Hall warts and all.

Returning to this Prom, I have to say that the sound of the Mozart 41 came as something of a sonic shock after all that had gone before. The Poulenc is a long-standing favourite of mine as well but one wonders if the mighty beast that is the RAH organ is quite what Poulenc had in mind. Living where I do I've no need to worry about neighbours so had the volume pumped up. The engineering so far seems absolutely fine to me.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Returning to this Prom, I have to say that the sound of the Mozart 41 came as something of a sonic shock after all that had gone before.

I felt much the same. The balance of sound within the orchestra was poor, with rather weak strings, rich woodwinds, biting brass and percussion.

[Roehre]

.... Schoenberg Gurrelieder. .... I cursed the BBC for not amplifying the singers as recommended by the composer....

Rauschwerk, when and where did Schönberg recommend this amplification?

[Richard J.]

The balance of sound within the orchestra was poor, with rather weak strings, rich woodwinds, biting brass and percussion.

In Side Stalls block M, I had exactly the same experience with Mozart's Jupiter, but thought it must be my position in the hall. I missed much of the piano sound in the Stravinsky too.

After the Poulenc and Stravinsky, and the wonderful 10 minutes of the Haydn Te Deum, I must admit that Mozart 41 seemed to be an anti-climax, which can't be right.

Re the Poulenc, the dynamic range in the hall was enormous. I'm not surprised if it caused problems at home via R3.

[rauschwerk]

Rauschwerk, when and where did Schönberg recommend this amplification?

In a letter to Thor Johnson (Cincinnati SO) of 1950, which appears in full in the booklet with the Craft recording. Re-reading this, however, I see that I have slightly mis-remembered it. The composer suggested amplifying the chorus, which he felt was never loud enough if placed behind the orchestra.

The RAH Gurrelieder I attended was conducted by Donald Runnicles. The soloists were practically drowned by the orchestra a lot of the time, though I can't be sure whether this was the result of the RAH acoustic. I couldn't help feeling that some subtle amplification would have helped matters.

I could go on but feel this is getting OT.

[Roehre]

In a letter to Thor Johnson (Cincinnati SO) of 1950, which appears in full in the booklet with the Craft recording. Re-reading this, however, I see that I have slightly mis-remembered it. The composer suggested amplifying the chorus, which he felt was never loud enough if placed behind the orchestra.

The RAH Gurrelieder I attended was conducted by Donald Runnicles. The soloists were practically drowned by the orchestra a lot of the time, though I can't be sure whether this was the result of the RAH acoustic. I couldn't help feeling that some subtle amplification would have helped matters.

I could go on but feel this is getting OT.

Thanks Rauschwerk

[mercia]

this evening's BBC4 "BBC Proms Sunday Symphony" is billed as having Mark Elder tell us about the Stravinsky and Mozart from this concert but by my reckoning, if this follows the same pattern as last week, all four works will eventually make it onto iPlayer, devoid of presentation.

After all if cameras are in place for two items in a concert it would be ridiculous not to 'film' the rest of the concert.

[mrbouffant]

After all if cameras are in place for two items in a concert it would be ridiculous not to 'film' the rest of the concert.

They certainly filmed to the Poulenc: there were cameras at the console capturing the hands & feet. For some reason there was a small monitor display sat on the edge of the stage facing the stalls where I was sat relaying it all. It was very interesting to watch the organist do his thing !

[waldo]

I felt much the same. The balance of sound within the orchestra was poor, with rather weak strings, rich woodwinds, biting brass and percussion.

I agree. I couldn't believe how poor the orchestra was in general. Their tuning was out on countless occasions and some of the instrumentalists (oboe, bassoon especially) really struggled with the pace of the Mozart finale. Quite shocking. I kept telling my wife, who doesn't like classical music, that the finale was one of the wonders of the world, but I don't think she believed me.........

[mercia]

They certainly filmed to the Poulenc: there were cameras at the console capturing the hands & feet. For some reason there was a small monitor display sat on the edge of the stage facing the stalls where I was sat relaying it all. It was very interesting to watch the organist do his thing !

I've just watched the Poulenc on iPlayer, as you say very interesting close-ups. Shame they couldn't have given us a minute or two of the applause at the end of the performance rather than cutting off immediately.