Prom 5: Haydn/Gruber/Stravinsky (20.07.15)

[bluestateprommer]

I would have thought the Gruber might have been better placed in the first half.

Looking back, that probably would have been the wiser option, i.e. to have all the percussion logistics set up at the start, and then "slim down" for the Haydn after the interval (but then they would have had to "bulk up" again for Petrushka). I wanted to like the HK Gruber work, but there was too much noodling, starting and stopping for me. Given that the work evolved into an elegy for David Drew, the restrained atmosphere at the start made sense, with very modest use of the percussion, but the work didn't really escape or diversify from there, at least to me. It was charming and touching to hear Gruber praise the BBC Phil in the interval feature as his "Rolls-Royce", but this did not quite seem the BBC Phil's finest evening at the Proms. I too noted the blips that Caliban caught in Petrushka. Oh well.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I too noted the blips that Caliban caught in Petrushka. Oh well.

I guess the long trumpet solo is one of the things catching the flak. But how often does it get done perfectly live? Not often I would say, and tonight's was nowhere near the worst I've heard on R3.

Only heard it once live, 1977 Bournemouth SO/ Seaman, and I noted then that this solo was 'less than immaculate' Still, an Elgar Violin Concerto with Kyung-Wha Chung very much made up for any disappointment on that occasion...

[ChrisBennell]

Talking of Haydn, I was blown away by a performance of no. 86 in D broadcast last Saturday morning on CD Summer Review by Norrington and the Zurich Chamber Orchestra. First movement was slightly faster than normal, and the whole piece was invigorating and full of energy. Now that the R3 Engineers have corrected their editing of the last movement and restored the missing final minute or so, it's well worth a listen. In a different world from the Prom performance of 85, I felt.

[VodkaDilc]

I heard part of this on the afternoon repeat today and I was pleasantly surprised by the presentation. I think that, in recent years, the musical parts of the repeated concerts have been linked from the studio, with the original live presentation edited out (and thus losing the 'sense of occasion'.) Today it was all there, including a discussion about the Petrushka versions which credited the listener with some background knowledge.

So, two pats on the back for R3 for retaining the links between works on the afternoon repeats and for reversing the trend for "Derhamising" which plagues telelvision coverage and some R3 coverage. Perhaps they do listen to us.

[Anastasius]

I would have thought the Gruber might have been better placed in the first half.

Or preferably left off the programme completely !

[bluestateprommer]

I heard part of this on the afternoon repeat today and I was pleasantly surprised by the presentation. I think that, in recent years, the musical parts of the repeated concerts have been linked from the studio, with the original live presentation edited out (and thus losing the 'sense of occasion'.) Today it was all there, including a discussion about the Petrushka versions which credited the listener with some background knowledge.

So, two pats on the back for R3 for retaining the links between works on the afternoon repeats and for reversing the trend for "Derhamising" which plagues telelvision coverage and some R3 coverage. Perhaps they do listen to us.

No doubt this was due to the fact that the presenter was Martin Handley, a wise, experienced and sure hand for Live in Concert and Proms broadcasts, and who really keeps a focus on the music, and presents his enthusiasm in the best way, not being gushing or hyperbolic.

Kind of mashing up EA's and LMP's comments earlier, it struck me even more that it would have indeed have been the much wiser choice to put the Gruber alone in the 1st half, because I wonder if the section principals would have been that much more drained having to play both the Gruber and the Stravinsky in the same part of the concert. Splitting those works, and putting the Haydn in the middle (i.e. the Haydn as the first work after intermission), might have led to less fatigue in the Stravinsky. Granted, the Stravinsky is a demanding work, to be sure, per LMP's point.

[Ferretfancy]

This was a concert that was OK, but somehow fell a little short. It was good to have a Haydn symphony, but it was a rather solid performance, short on charm.

At the talk in the RCM, HK Gruber struck me as an honest man who had strong opinions about his dislike of the so called Darmstadt School and his own wish to be a good communicator. He was asked if it might be possible for his composition to be played by two or three percussionists instead of just the one, but said it needed to be one player as he enjoyed watching the soloist jumping about!

In the event, the huge battery of percussion was lined up right across the front of the platform, and Colin Currie certainly jumped about, This was quite diverting as seen from the Arena, but after a while I began looking at my watch.

There was some nice playing in Petrushka, but it was an oddly inconsistent performance. The conductor seemed to want the piece to be a psychological impression, but this resulted in a romanticised view of the work. The rather heartless atmosphere and mechanical rhythms that seems to me to be part of the essence were toned down, with some odd hiccups in the woodwind playing in particular. The last four pizzicato notes at the very end should surely be almost matter of fact, but here they were oddly spaced.
Disappointing.

[Serial_Apologist]

There was some nice playing in Petrushka, but it was an oddly inconsistent performance. The conductor seemed to want the piece to be a psychological impression, but this resulted in a romanticised view of the work. The rather heartless atmosphere and mechanical rhythms that seems to me to be part of the essence were toned down, with some odd hiccups in the woodwind playing in particular. The last four pizzicato notes at the very end should surely be almost matter of fact, but here they were oddly spaced.
Disappointing.

Having previously heard the original scoring of the piece, my impression is very much of a score still under the influence of Rimsky and Debussy, as in the case of The Firebird, resulting in music much more opulent and sensuous than the later, more familiar re-orchestrated versions.

[Ferretfancy]

Having previously heard the original scoring of the piece, my impression is very much of a score still under the influence of Rimsky and Debussy, as in the case of The Firebird, resulting in music much more opulent and sensuous than the later, more familiar re-orchestrated versions.

I prefer the 1911 version to the later revisions, and it certainly is more opulent. Nevertheless, I don't think that the numerous sharper edges should be smoothed over as they were last night, the gaudy fairground feeling with the cheeky quotes from Lanner and others was absent.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It was good to have a Haydn symphony, but it was a rather solid performance, short on charm.

It came across well on Radio 3 - rather better than the following day's Mozart 41.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I too noted the blips that Caliban caught in Petrushka. Oh well.

That's one of the bug-bears of live performances, particularly when they are recorded for all time by enthusiastic listeners, and made available for all to chew over for a month afterwards.