Applause....I know, I know..........

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm sorry, Flossie, but you'll have to trawl through the proms threads to find those little digs about clapping between movements dropped by MrGG long before this one began. I ignored them as they were off-topic.

[Beef Oven!]

".....Mr Ingham is not involved in the matter of applause at the concert - a concert which he is unlikely to attend...................

It doesn't appear to matter whether one attends these concerts or not, the society of crusty curmudgeons (or The Society Of Crusty Curmudgeons) are telling us what to do when we get there.

[french frank]

Indeed - but this is moving away from the Aristotle/Hobbes polarised groups that you offered in #144 (I grossly oversimplify). It's not necessarily the case that people clap between movements because they put their individual wants before a larger society. Some of them are acting in what could be described as an "Aristotelian" desire to act in a social/communal (/civil/polite) manner.

I don't think that works. Where there has been a universal tradition which has become the 'social norm' (i.e. is universally respected), I would say that deliberately going against that is either 'anti-social' or - more forgiveably - ignorance (as in this case frequently seems to be the case). I don't agree that 'social' in this sense implies, necessarily, general civility/politeness either. Not doing something which 'society' has, by tradition, ruled impolite respects the social norm. Doing something which a group considers/has ruled to be 'the polite thing to do' can be anti-social.[/QUOTE] I would argue this to be the case here.

['Moore', I said, 'do you have some apples in that basket?']

[MrGongGong]

Obviously trouble-makers, who deliberately set out to provoke & upset

People usually clap because they like something

Orchestral musicians shuffle their feet is that ok?

Maybe the solution is to make sure there's nothing worth clapping?

[Beef Oven!]

I don't think that works. Where there has been a universal tradition which has become the 'social norm' (i.e. is universally respected), I would say that deliberately going against that is either 'anti-social' or - more forgiveably - ignorance (as in this case frequently seems to be the case). I don't agree that 'social' in this sense implies, necessarily, general civility/politeness either. Not doing something which 'society' has, by tradition, ruled impolite respects the social norm. Doing something which a group considers/has ruled to be 'the polite thing to do' can be anti-social.

I would argue this to be the case here.['Moore', I said, 'do you have some apples in that basket?']

Social mores, etiquette and so on, develop over time. They change. It all feels like Pooter blanching at Lupin's wearing of check on a Sunday.

[kernelbogey]

I haven't read the thread up page; but...

I believe that the people who like to get in a shout of approbation a microsecond after the last note are responding to their excitement: their inability to contain that for a moment or two may be that they enjoy being exhibitionists; or they've been told too infrequently in life to shut up.

I suspect that those who applaud between movements are respoding to a similar inner excitement.

It seems that this is becoming something of a social norm: 'I have a right to express my feelings....'

[Beef Oven!]

I haven't read the thread up page; but...

I believe that the people who like to get in a shout of approbation a microsecond after the last note are responding to their excitement: their inability to contain that for a moment or two may be that they enjoy being exhibitionists; or they've been told too infrequently in life to shut up.

I suspect that those who applaud between movements are respoding to a similar inner excitement.

It seems that this is becoming something of a social norm: 'I have a right to express my feelings....'

Not so bogey.

The twats who shout 'Bravo' etc, a nano-second after the piece has finished are a different kettle of fish.

Those that clap between movements, are the same as those who observe the received protocol of clapping at the very end of the piece, except they feel that in some situations, the approbation can be more often.

[french frank]

'I have a right to express my feelings....'

Hobbesian Man.

In fact there is a temptation to posit: 'Hobbesian Man, Aristotelian Woman' - to see who protests :-)

[Petrushka]

On the question of where the inter-movement Proms applause comes from, I did a swift eye-check round the hall at the CBSO/Nelsons Prom on July 19 where I was sitting in 'L' Stalls. It definitely doesn't start in the Arena. My view is that it's not from the Stalls either. The evidence points to either the Circle, the Grand Tier or the Gallery. It is also initiated by one, possibly two, individuals with others following like sheep around the hall. Whenever this individual takes a night off there is no applause.

I'm quite sure that ignorance or 'thinking the piece is over' have nothing to do with it, nor is it 'Hello Mum' exhibitionists. I do feel sure that it is a deliberate act of disruption.

Having said all of that, I'd only repeat that it no longer bothers me very much as there's going to be noise anyway. Disruptive noise while the music is playing is a different matter entirely.

[MrGongGong]

Not so bogey.

The twats who shout 'Bravo' etc, a nano-second after the piece has finished are a different kettle of fish.

Spot on kipperkid

The assumption that people clap (that's CLAP) in between movements because they are either
1: Exhibitionists
or
2: Ignorant plebs who need to be taught the rules

is nonsense.

Last time I wrote a symphony people clapped between movements and I found it rather comforting.

[jean]

It all feels like Pooter blanching at Lupin's wearing of check on a Sunday.

It doesn't to me, not least because it's a lot easier not to look at things I don't want to see than it is to avoid hearing things I don't want to hear.

[MrGongGong]

Stephen seems to think it's also about context and not rules

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/stephenhough/8730385/Clap_between_movements_PLEASE/

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Last time I wrote a symphony people clapped between movements and I found it rather comforting.

Now I begin to understand.

[french frank]

The assumption that people clap (that's CLAP) in between movements because they are either
1: Exhibitionists
or
2: Ignorant plebs who need to be taught the rules

is nonsense.

Straw man. Being 'ignorant' of a particular fact doesn't make one a 'pleb'. Some people feel more comfortable knowing 'what others do', others don't care tuppence.

But I don't think you can have it both ways - you either allow people to shout out their enthusiasm a micro-second before the end of the symphony if they want to, and applaud when they want to - or you don't - otherwise you're creating 'rules' for people (you can't do that but you can do this). That's 'context'. People were applauding while the music was playing during the Sinatra Prom - that's 'context' too.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Straw man. Being 'ignorant' of a particular fact doesn't make one a 'pleb'.

No but . . .

People were applauding while the music was playing during the Sinatra Prom

maybe that does.