Applause....I know, I know..........

[ahinton]

I don't think that this has yet been mentioned, but isn't the applause between movements issue largely focused upon public performances of orchestral works or other pieces for relatively large forces performed in relatively large auditoria before relatively large audiences? I'm trying to imagine what likelihood there might be, for example, of applause between the movements of Ferneyhough's Third Quartet or Shostakovich's Fifteenth ditto, or Schmitt's Piano Quintet and what reactions to any such inter-movement applause it might incite from non-applauders at such events - or, for that matter, the proportion of audience members that might applaud between the movements of Bruckner's Fifth Symphony in a performance space capable of accommodating 2,500 listeners but whose performance takes place there before less than 500 audience members; in other words, mights this issue be of noticeably less pertinence in the cases of (a) chamber works performed in more intimate venues or (b) big orchestral ones played before audiences whose members occupy only, say, some 20% of available seats in larger performance spaces?

Such possible inconsistency may not necessarily impact upon some people's arguments on this topic but I do think that they're nevertheless rather too important to dismiss altogether.

[ahinton]

What may be being suggested is that quietly leisurely wandering around in the Arena while the music is underway would be more acceptable than in the aisles, if people squashed in between seat rows would have constantly to stand up to let ambulants pass.

In the instance related to me years ago (by someone who shall remain nameless) in which unusually inadequate performances of works by Sorabji by a hapless pianist (who shall also remain nameless) impacted upon the audience to such an extent as to prompt him to remark that he'd attended many concerts in which he'd had to queue up to get in but that this was the first that he'd had to queue up to get out, it might be thought that those audience members following the first ones to make their exits therefrom might be described as "ambulants chasers"...

[Beef Oven!]

I don't think that this has yet been mentioned, but isn't the applause between movements issue largely focused upon public performances of orchestral works or other pieces for relatively large forces performed in relatively large auditoria before relatively large audiences? I'm trying to imagine what likelihood there might be, for example, of applause between the movements of Ferneyhough's Third Quartet or Shostakovich's Fifteenth ditto, or Schmitt's Piano Quintet and what reactions to any such inter-movement applause it might incite from non-applauders at such events - or, for that matter, the proportion of audience members that might applaud between the movements of Bruckner's Fifth Symphony in a performance space capable of accommodating 2,500 listeners but whose performance takes place there before less than 500 audience members; in other words, mights this issue be of noticeably less pertinence in the cases of (a) chamber works performed in more intimate venues or (b) big orchestral ones played before audiences whose members occupy only, say, some 20% of available seats in larger performance spaces?

Such possible inconsistency may not necessarily impact upon some people's arguments on this topic but I do think that they're nevertheless rather too important to dismiss altogether.

I don't see them as inconsistencies. Even for advocates, clapping will be inappropriate in many situations, e.g. following the fourth movement in Mahler 5. I found the clapping after every movement of Nielsen 2 in tonight's Prom was wrong. Audiences need to develop an instinct for this.

[Serial_Apologist]

I don't think that this has yet been mentioned, but isn't the applause between movements issue largely focused upon public performances of orchestral works or other pieces for relatively large forces performed in relatively large auditoria before relatively large audiences? I'm trying to imagine what likelihood there might be, for example, of applause between the movements of Ferneyhough's Third Quartet or Shostakovich's Fifteenth ditto, or Schmitt's Piano Quintet and what reactions to any such inter-movement applause it might incite from non-applauders at such events - or, for that matter, the proportion of audience members that might applaud between the movements of Bruckner's Fifth Symphony in a performance space capable of accommodating 2,500 listeners but whose performance takes place there before less than 500 audience members; in other words, mights this issue be of noticeably less pertinence in the cases of (a) chamber works performed in more intimate venues or (b) big orchestral ones played before audiences whose members occupy only, say, some 20% of available seats in larger performance spaces?

Such possible inconsistency may not necessarily impact upon some people's arguments on this topic but I do think that they're nevertheless rather too important to dismiss altogether.

A veritable sea of imponderables awaits the surmiser of too many variables to fit easily into the discussion at this stage, methinks.

[ahinton]

A veritable sea of imponderables awaits the surmiser of too many variables to fit easily into the discussion at this stage, methinks.

That was the fundamental point that I was seeking to make.

[Flosshilde]

The practice has been mentioned on other threads. Many of the older people at concerts in Scarborough's Spa Grand Hall get up and leave mid-music, just so they can be first on the cliff lift.

The practice may be OK for Proms in the Park or similar outdoor events, but surely not in concert halls.

I thouyght that was the whole point of promenade concerts? & I remember it happening when I was in the RAH gallery. (& talking, eating & general carryings-on in dimly lit corners).

[Nick Armstrong]

(general carryings-on in dimly lit corners).

[P. G. Tipps]

As things stand at the moment, I'm as happy to put up with inter-movement applause while its tendency is to erupt spontaneously in response to a thrilling conclusion to a movement just performed, as I am to stifle my own inclinations so to do if some are upset by this; the reason being that I'm pretty certain that once clapping becomes customary it will eventually start happening after quiet endings too.

Well, S_A, I have no great burning desire to 'upset others' unnecessarily by applauding 'inappropriately' and thus attracting angry glares from some around me. Heavens, no, someone very close to my heart would kill me, for a start.

However, I'm still not at all clear why many types of noise which have nothing to do with the music are considered 'appropriate' and the very one which is clearly connected to the performance isn't?

Illogical, sir! Yet, I fear my apparent unenviable fate is to remain in total ignorance of any sensible answer to this question for the rest of my hand-slapped, concert-going days.

[verismissimo]

Dogs and bones?

[Flosshilde]

once clapping becomes customary it will eventually start happening after quiet endings too.

& why not, if it "erupt[s] spontaneously in response to a thrilling conclusion to a movement just performed"? People can be moved & thrilled by somerthing quiet as well as loud.

fond memories, Cali?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's a deadline, no? Like, let's try and work towards some convergence of views on this, rather than assume an infinitude of time to luxuriate in the rightness of our respective positions.

Yeah - that worked, then!


fizzle fizzle fizzle

[jean]

I don't think that this has yet been mentioned, but isn't the applause between movements issue largely focused upon public performances of orchestral works or other pieces for relatively large forces performed in relatively large auditoria before relatively large audiences?

It has been mentioned, by me, that applause between movements of Mass settings when performed in concert (rather than liturgically) whether in churches or concert halls is becoming routine.

What usually happens is that the Kyrie passes without applause, but then the audience hears Amen at the end of the Gloria and takes that as a signal that applause is required, after which you get it after the Credo and Sanctus as well.

First time I heard this treatment was for the Missa Papae Marcelli, Tallis Scholars, Chester Cathedral, a few years ago.

I'm trying to imagine what likelihood there might be, for example, of applause between the movements of Ferneyhough's Third Quartet or Shostakovich's Fifteenth ditto, or Schmitt's Piano Quintet and what reactions to any such inter-movement applause it might incite from non-applauders at such events...

I have heard an audience caught out by a Haydn trick ending - but when they knew they'd been had, they laughed.

[Flosshilde]

If there was going to be a convergence of views it would have happened long before the 500th post. ff seems to be quite happy to have a thread complaining about a particular programme maundering on - perhaps becuase it's mostly a mutual moan-fest ('isn't it terrible', 'yes it's awful') with hardly a dissenting voice - for ever, but not this one.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If there was going to be a convergence of views it would have happened long before the 500th post. ff seems to be quite happy to have a thread complaining about a particular programme maundering on - perhaps becuase it's mostly a mutual moan-fest ('isn't it terrible', 'yes it's awful') with hardly a dissenting voice - for ever, but not this one.

Don't beat yourself up, Flossie - you're doing a sterling job!

[Stanfordian]

It's quite simple when it's an orchestral/recital or instrumental concert you keep quiet and clap when the work has concluded. For opera the conductor might leave a gap for applause after a well sung aria and in addition you clap when the curtain closes such as at the end of an act and at the conclusion. What could be more simple than that!




Edit (to avoid bumping up the number of posts - only 20 to go). That does seem to be the ideal compromise.

EA