Applause....I know, I know..........

[P. G. Tipps]

Getting back to the thread topic and away from irrelevancies (in this case) like the Catholic Church and mere opinions over controversial grammar, I find the silence demanded by the conductor following some works as being nothing short of unnatural.

I can see the point at the finish of, say, Bruckner 9 or Mahler 9. A period of silence and reflection before applause seems wholly right in each case.

However to witness a self-advertising conductor like Thielemann or Rattle taking an age to lower his baton at end of Bruckner 7 is quite a different matter altogether, and can even completely destroy the joy and glory of the moment for some.

The natural thing is surely for the audience to continue to share in that joy and not be forced to repress it?

[Flosshilde]

However to witness a self-advertising conductor like Thielemann or Rattle taking an age to lower his baton at end of Bruckner 7 is quite a different matter altogether, and can even completely destroy the joy and glory of the moment for some.

The natural thing is surely for the audience to continue to share in that joy and not be forced to repress it?

Indeed; applause is the expression of joy & exhileration produced by a good performance of good music, & shouldn't be dictated by the conductor. I suspect that some here think that anything more than a few polite claps is exceeding the bounds of good taste (as for stamping on the floor! )

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The natural thing is surely for the audience to continue to share in that joy and not be forced to repress it?

My cat lives by that philosophy.

[french frank]

Sorry? Could you run that past me again? Saying that some people's motives are mischievious doesn't mean that some people's motives are mischievious? And look at some of Eine Alpensinfonie's posts where he does make that assertion.

I will run that past you again, Flossie.

I didn't have to look at anyone's else's post, since you quoted, specifically, I think it was Draco's: you used 'asserted' ('state a fact or belief confidently and forcefully'). Draco's use of 'possibly', modified by 'some' (people) is neither confident nor forceful, therefore 'assert' is not the word required. Furthermore, it suggests that Draco said in #301 something which he didn't say. Jean had already pointed out that the link you gave earlier had not illustrated your point either: I was pointing out that your reference to Draco's post didn't illustrate what you were alleging.

You quoted my use in one post 'wholly mischievous' which was not accusing anyone of anything, merely saying, on the subject of respect (which I think someone else had introduced), that IF anyone's motives were 'wholly michievous' they would not deserve respect. That would also not be 'asserting' that, in clapping between movements, everyone/anyone is being 'wholly mischievous'. But it might be the case, sometimes: it would only need to apply to one individual for this to be true.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I will run that past you again, Flossie.

I didn't have to look at anyone's else's post, since you quoted, specifically, I think it was Draco's: you used 'asserted' ('state a fact or belief confidently and forcefully'). Draco's use of 'possibly', modified by 'some' (people) is neither confident nor forceful, therefore 'assert' is not the word required. Furthermore, it suggests that Draco said in #301 something which he didn't say. Jean had already pointed out that the link you gave earlier had not illustrated your point either: I was pointing out that your reference to Draco's post didn't illustrate what you were alleging.

You quoted my use in one post 'wholly mischievous' which was not accusing anyone of anything, merely saying, on the subject of respect (which I think someone else had introduced), that IF anyone's motives were 'wholly michievous' they would not deserve respect. That would also not be 'asserting' that, in clapping between movements, everyone/anyone is being 'wholly mischievous'. But it might be the case, sometimes: it would only need to apply to one individual for this to be true.

I made the "assertion" Flossie is referring to when highlighting MrGG's "goading" on the clapping issue several times before this thread had even been started, and did an electronic whoop of delight as soon as DracoM started the post.

[MrGongGong]

More linguistics I see

(I'm sure I said this before somewhere)

It is interesting that the folks who post in here rarely have points of reference in the aesthetics of MUSIC.

Why is this?

If I went to a Literature based discussion group would they all be referring to Adorno, Small, Dahlhaus, Meyer, Cage, Truax or even Roger Scruton?

There are lots of really interesting things written (not just in ethnomusicology or electroacoustic theory) about the nature of performance but this "classical music audience" doesn't really seem interested.

[MrGongGong]

I made the "assertion" Flossie is referring to when highlighting MrGG's "goading" on the clapping issue several times before this thread had even been started, and did an electronic whoop of delight as soon as DracoM started the post.

It wasn't a WHOOP of delight more like this (in intention)

[Priest.] O Lord, open thou our lips.
Answer. And our mouth shall show forth thy praise.
Priest. O God, make speed to save us.
Answer. O Lord, make haste to help us.
Priest. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost;
Answer. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
Priest. Praise ye the Lord.
Answer. The Lord's Name be praised.

And a delight in getting a full house in the annual Proms Bingo competition

[gurnemanz]

Applause can be part of the occasion. I'm thinking, for example, of a concert performance of Parsifal we attended in 1975 - the first time it had been performed post-war in East Germany. It was in Leipzig, the city of the composer's birth, and was a very special evening. The audience seemed not to want the occasion to end and the applause at the end went on for nearly half an hour. Just re-issued for peanuts on Brilliant.

(Personal PS: Later that year I married the person I had attended the concert with - 40th anniversary coming up soon).

[DracoM]

Aha! So someone else found the Grail!
That DOES call for applause!

[P. G. Tipps]

Great post, EA!
(The one about your cat!)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Great post, EA!
(The one about your cat!)

But we do seem to have a few posters who think the same way as cats.

[jean]

I suspect that some here think that anything more than a few polite claps is exceeding the bounds of good taste (as for stamping on the floor!

You may suspect it, but nothing anyone's said on this thread is grounds for your suspicion.

[Sir Velo]

Applause at a concert is invariably less irritating when one is among the audience. I find I'm less tolerant when listening at home, where it frequently comes as an unwelcome intrusion into the rapt atmosphere which the players have created. Live, the additional visual impact of the concert allow one to block out or share the enthusiasm (depending on one's view of the performance). What jars during home listening, is the tepid, polite clapping we seem to get; a few raucous roars would indicate a more genuine, less perfunctory show of enthusiasm!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Applause at a concert is invariably less irritating when one is among the audience. I find I'm less tolerant when listening at home, where it frequently comes as an unwelcome intrusion into the rapt atmosphere which the players have created. Live, the additional visual impact of the concert allow one to block out or share the enthusiasm (depending on one's view of the performance). What jars during home listening, is the tepid, polite clapping we seem to get; a few raucous roars would indicate a more genuine, less perfunctory show of enthusiasm!

- on every point.

[ahinton]

Clearly that old belter MacDonald certainly persuaded the young, spotty-faced, snotty-nosed, ink-bomb-hurling Tipps of the unerring nature of his instruction, though that quite remarkable achievement was probably attained rather more through the use of fear than any gentle goading, I guess.

I would not classify tawsing (which you mentioned) as synonymous with either fear or gentle goading, your description of Mr MacDonald as a "belter" seeming to be far more to the point. That said, I suspect that he did not confine his tawsing activities to his "spotty-faced, spotty-nosed, ink-bomb-hurling" students any more than that all of those students did indeed fall into all or some of those categories.

Sir's grammarian dogmatism certainly left it's mark ... in more ways than one

Leaving aside the grocer's apostrophe since fhg has already drawn attention to it, that's the point; leaving such marks is not synonymous with - and indeed, in many ways, is contrary to - teaching, which is presumably what Mr MacDonald was paid to do.

this ever-loyal former pupil

"Ever-loyal"? To what? - and why? - given Mr MacDonald's tendency to commit acts of violence upon some or all of his students whenever the mood took him.

Indeed, I can now almost see Sir nodding approvingly, albeit with some astonishment, somewhere up there in the Great Unknown.

What makes you assume that he has attained that state, in the light of certain aspects of his conduct in the classroom?...

Some forum discipline, please, boys and girls!

Enforced by what means? Cybertawsing? You could risk being banned for less!