Applause....I know, I know..........

[jean]

No, I'm referring to concert performances.

It's true that Catholics like to applaud in church - they applaud all kinds of things, but never the music (unless perhaps a particularly flamboyant organ voluntary, at the very end).

[kernelbogey]

Based on my hearing (on R3) of the last few Proms in which there was significant applause between movements, and specifically in the Prokofiev 5, it sounds like there is one member of the audience who dives in with two quick claps, which are immediately taken up by a few - just like the way stage managers at concerts start the applause for leader and conductor. (Someone posted earlier the same observation made from the hall.)

[Stillhomewardbound]

It's true that Catholics like to applaud in church - they applaud all kinds of things.

Well, I admire the confidence of the assertion, but perhaps you might care to give some concrete examples, because, aside from being a rather silly generalisation, it has not been the experience of this (albeit flaky) catholic.

[muzzer]

All this is very interesting. I've not read it but Tipping Point and its ilk must have something to say about this sort of thing.

Is one "solution" for performers to be able to stipulate in the programme notes whether or not they wish for inter-movement applause? And those of us who think like me that everyone should stfu until the end of the piece simply have to defer to their wishes? Because, in the absence of a new convention, I can only see the current mish mash getting worse, fuelled at least in part oh the irony by people like La Klein trying to be down with the kids.

Classic New Britain, from buttoned up to all hanging out in 20 years. And no way back to something sensible which respects one's fellows.

[Bryn]

Respect is a two way Street. Have some for those who show their approbation during the hiatus between separate movements of a multi-movement work.

[french frank]

Respect is a two way Street. Have some for those who show their approbation during the hiatus between separate movements of a multi-movement work.

One can maintain human respect for those who clap (unless their motives are wholly mischievous, in which case they would not deserve respect) while still being annoyed at their actions.

One can maintain human respect for those who prefer no clapping, especially if this is - not because they are conservative fuddy-duddies - but because there are reasons centred on the music to maintain the silence.

Concert-going started out as much as a social event as a musical one, and people behaved casually as if they were at a soirée; when music became the sole purpose, people became more musically literate. But what goes around, comes around - in 30 years, perhaps, they will all, with succeeding generations, be public dance-parties.

[jean]

Well, I admire the confidence of the assertion, but perhaps you might care to give some concrete examples, because, aside from being a rather silly generalisation, it has not been the experience of this (albeit flaky) catholic.

Catholics applaud particular events and and people - not at every Mass by any means, but when there's something noteworthy to celebrate. And Anglicans used not to (though I think they do it more now). I remember that the first time the Archbishop of Canterbury attended Westminster Cathedral there was applause, which brought the two traditions into collision

S-A has noticed Catholic practice too, and I'm sure you wouldn't call him 'silly':

...applause I have noted in Roman Catholic services in churches, cathedrals or from the balcony of the Vatican when crowds are addressed in word and music by the Pope...

But they don't applaud the music sung in the course of the Mass, which was my main point.

[MrGongGong]

Why do you separate the "musical" from the "social" ?

Sound is part of musicking

http://www.upne.com/0819522562.html

[Beef Oven!]

[QUOTE]

One can maintain human respect for those who clap (unless their motives are wholly mischievous, in which case they would not deserve respect) while still being annoyed at their actions.

I really struggle with the idea that music-lovers (and that's what we are first and foremost) would go to concerts to cause mischief. And so many of them!

One can maintain human respect for those who prefer no clapping, especially if this is - not because they are conservative fuddy-duddies - but because there are reasons centred on the music to maintain the silence.

Are you assuming that clapping between movements isn't centred on the music? I can only speak for myself, but when I clap between movements (including at home listening to my CDs), it is centred on, and because of, the music and nothing else.

Concert-going started out as much as a social event as a musical one.......

And the Proms continues this.

and people behaved casually as if they were at a soirée; when music became the sole purpose, people became more musically literate. But what goes around, comes around - in 30 years, perhaps, they will all, with succeeding generations, be public dance-parties.

I can't help feeling that "as if they were at a soiree" and "they will all.......be public dance-parties" is the other side of a pejorative coin that has 'conservative fuddy-duddies on the other side.

[Flosshilde]

One can maintain human respect for those who clap (unless their motives are wholly mischievous, in which case they would not deserve respect)

But it has been asserted here that their motives are wholly mischevious.

[MrGongGong]

But it has been asserted here that their motives are wholly mischevious.

Indeed

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?13819-Applause-I-know-I-know&p=502100#post502100

[jean]

Not in the post you link to there

[MrGongGong]

Not in the post you link to there

It was a comment

The inability to understand that different people experience the world differently and express themselves in different ways is a far bigger "listening problem" IMV

Carry on with you linguistics

[doversoul1]

It was a comment

The inability to understand that different people experience the world differently and express themselves in different ways is a far bigger "listening problem" IMV

Carry on with you linguistics

I take it that you give the same lecture to those who applaud between movements. Or maybe composers like their works applauded during the performance regardless of the wishes of some/many people in the audience.

Star castrati certainly demanded applause every time they finished their arias.

Never mind. Carry on with your musicking.

[DracoM]

It has to be at least possible that some who applaud between movements know full well that the convention as current is that you do NOT clap but deliberately do it because maybe they want to show appreciation, or because they know quite a lot of people dislike it and want to say 'tough, I want to so I'll do it', or presumably there will be others who follow because they think that is what you do at the Proms - particularly if they are new / newish to the Proms or even concert going in general. Mix of motives must be very various indeed.

My objection is merely because I have this possibly outdated view that the work as a whole has been designed to hang together and I'd like to hear what the composer / instrumentalists have to say in different moods before I butt in. It seems to me to at the very least break up the design by my imposition of my own approval before the whole is complete. Seems counter-intuitive, but there you go.....what do I know!!

Question is: would the clappers also BOO between movements if they disliked what they had heard? And if they did, what would happen then?