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I was once taking part in a concert where one of the organisers started applauding from the wings in all sorts of inappropriate and unnecessary places.Originally posted by Flosshilde View Post
I remonstrated with him, but he refused to stop because he feared the programme was too short and the applause would spin it out a bit.
(That really happened.)
Another time, at a concert of unaccompanied music, unexpected applause quite threw the singers so that they lost the note they needed to continue.
(So did that.)Comment
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Can one "deliberately" do something against a "tradition that has become the 'social norm' if one is "ignorant" of such a tradition? Is that an accurate representation of Hobbes' idea of humanity.Originally posted by french frank View Post
No, not necessarily - as I said, too: but in the same terms, it does not necessarily imply a lack of general civility/politeness, either, and where it doesn't so imply, it doesn't fit into the Aristotle/Hobbes dualism you introduced in #144.I don't agree that 'social' in this sense implies, necessarily, general civility/politeness either.
Bertie Wooster goes to his first symphony concert:
"I say! I've never been to one of these classical dos before, but I did rather enjoy the way they played that piece. Let 'em know that their endeavours haven't been in vain!"
... not quite what Hobbes was thinking of? Closer to Aristotle, perhaps?
It can, indeed - but it isn't automatically so.Not doing something which 'society' has, by tradition, ruled impolite respects the social norm. Doing something which a group considers/has ruled to be 'the polite thing to do' can be anti-social.
Which "here"? The "clappers" who apparently do so purely to upset others, those who do so because that is how they express their appreciation elsewhere (and who would be horrified to hear that others would consider their action "impolite"), or those who seek to recreate the "universal tradition which ha[d] become the 'social norm' (ie universally respected)" of the times of many of the composers themselves? The first group might fall clearly into the Hobbesian model, and possibly the third - but the second?I would argue this to be the case here.[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]Comment
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I'm happy to chuck that in as Gongers' 'context' - what happens at jazz concerts too? Different strokes …Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
What I am interested in is this apparent 'rule' that it's NOT OKAY to yelp 'Bravo' before the music ends
; but not being allowed to clap between movements is one of those stupid old rules 
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As for Stephen Hough - and Gongers and his symphony - stop press: performers and composers like audience adulation
PS I don't go to live performances of any kind now
so I'm only pursuing this as dialectic
It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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I will respond to ferney later - I'm trying to get away for a few hours
It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.Comment
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Only the insecure need it every ten minutes. And even Stephen Hough notes exceptions.Originally posted by french frank View PostAs for Stephen Hough - and Gongers and his symphony - stop press: performers and composers like audience adulation
One choir I sing in always tells the audience not to applaud until the very end of the programme, and they do as they're told. I suppose if they didn't make up for their earlier reticence at that point I'd be a bit perturbed, but they always do. And that is as it should be.Comment
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For me, there is a bit of slippery slope in all of this. If it becomes more widespread then the audience might feel obliged to do it because it is expected of them (rather like a standing ovation seems to have become the norm at the end of every performance of every West End musical) . Also will it end at applause -how about it being seen as also acceptable to resume a conversation (or more likely, a row) you were having earlier or to noisily unwrap a sweet or flick through the programme.Comment
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Proms are different strokes, too......Originally posted by french frank View Post
It is a stupid old rule that only the conservatives care about. The fans, the musicians don't. This forum is very conservative and so we might be fooled into thinking that what's being said on here is representative.What I am interested in is this apparent 'rule' that it's NOT OKAY to yelp 'Bravo' before the music ends; but not being allowed to clap between movements is one of those stupid old rules .
Indeed. When you get the performers and the audience on the same wavelength, it's time for the conservatives to step aside!As for Stephen Hough - and Gongers and his symphony - stop press: performers and composers like audience adulation
PS I don't go to live performances of any kind now so I'm only pursuing this as dialectic
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There's very little evidence for that from actual Prommers.Originally posted by Beef Oven! View PostComment
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I remember a performance of Mahler 9 conducted by Abbado some years ago which no one applauded until long after it was over - because they just couldn't; surely those composers and performers who desire adulation after a performance of one of their works could not have hoped for better "applause" than this "sound of no hands able to clap"?...Comment
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Every so often in the course of these discussions I remember that
A ban on applause used to be standard practice for performances of Bach's St Matthew Passion...Vaughan Williams, who helped fix the work at the heart of the British choral tradition in the 1930s...thought little of shedding bits he didn't like, yet he would stomp off stage in anger if anyone dared break the clapping taboo.Comment
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Not everyone has yet managed to blow your cover.Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post2012
(don't you read Classical Music Magazine
)Comment
Excellent. 
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