Proms Extra (with Katie Derham)

[Master Jacques]

I find it interesting, and significant, that nobody - absolutely nobody - on this thread has a single good word to say about Katie Derham. As many contributors to the Forum are "core audience" for BBC Radio 3 and/or The Proms, one might think that somebody, somewhere should sit up, take notice, and sack the baggage.

Perhaps we should suggest a revival of that good old Athenian habit, the annual Ostracism, for R3 listeners? We'd all have a vote, and the poor sucker coming top of the poll (almost certainly Ms Derham) would be sent packing from the airwaves for the year. That would be good for us, good for the BBC R3 payroll, and perhaps a chastening lesson to the victim.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

No, we should not. Attacking individual presenters will achieve nothing, particularly as they are all stuck with a formula presented to them by their line managers.

Besides, we are falling into the same trap, by regarding the presenter as someone of great importance. I've always taken the opposite view. Indeed on the OPs for Proms concert threads, I cut and paste information from the Radio 3 Schedule on the BBC website, apart from the names of the presenters, which is of little relevance.

[ahinton]

No, we should not. Attacking individual presenters will achieve nothing, particularly as they are all stuck with a formula presented to them by their line managers.

Besides, we are falling into the same trap, by regarding the presenter as someone of great importance. I've always taken the opposite view. Indeed on the OPs for Proms concert threads, I cut and paste information from the Radio 3 Schedule on the BBC website, apart from the names of the presenters, which is of little relevance.

I take all of your points here and have long held the view that producers ought perhaps more often to be the butt of this kind of criticism than presenters but, that said, this is no excuse for some of the presentation that comes across the airwaves that convey R3; certain presenters seem to regard it as de rigeur to invest in an impression of self-importance and, whatever the agendas of the producers might be, the sheer vacuity and pointlessness of some aspects of certain presentations speak for themselves about the presenters far more than about what's suposedly being presented. I would find it hard to believe that even the more self-absorbed of the chatty-chatty presenters are blissfully unaware of the impression that they create by reason of the ways in which they strutt their stuff.

A further point is that, unless different line managers have widely differing agendas where presentation manner, style and content are concerned, the fact that only certain presenters attract such dismay and derision rather than all of them surely speaks for itself.

[french frank]

It is open to any individual to write to Radio 3 and express their personal opinion of anything or anyone. It is not for anyone, speaking either for the forum or FoR3, to presume to do so.

In a recent FoR3 survey we encouraged people to name any presenters whose contribution was regarded as in any way 'exemplary' and enhanced the programme by their contribution (high or low profile). A few names stood out and we included them in our report. We said nothing about those whose contribution was regarded as a deficit: not our job to stick knives in anyone's ribs.

[Richard Tarleton]

I watched this week's prog today, the only one I've watched, because Chi-chi Nwanoku was on it - an inspirational musician and teacher. She talked about the NYO, Mark Elder, double basses as the rhythm section (a term I'd chiefly associated with rock bands until I first saw the OAE, with the basses strung out along the back, and wondered why all orchestras didn't do that)....a shame she had to sit on that ridiculous sofa with her legs in the air but I'm sure she saw the funny side.

DON's slot a bit brief I thought - I always enjoy his analyses - and I enjoyed Lawrence Power on violas - he was interesting too. I last saw him as Sancho Panza to Tim Hugh's Don Quixote in Cardiff. Ms Nwanoku was here last year with Tim Hugh and friends.....

[Tony Halstead]

Ms Nwanoku used to be married to Mr Hugh

[Richard Tarleton]

That I didn't know

Tim Hugh comes each year with a few friends who play at this venue - I think he has family connections in the area.

[Master Jacques]

Attacking individual presenters will achieve nothing, particularly as they are all stuck with a formula presented to them by their line managers.

Besides, we are falling into the same trap, by regarding the presenter as someone of great importance. I've always taken the opposite view. Indeed on the OPs for Proms concert threads, I cut and paste information from the Radio 3 Schedule on the BBC website, apart from the names of the presenters, which is of little relevance.

Sorry to have raised your hackles. However, I don't view it as a "trap", or an attack on unfair game. After all, these presenters are the outward-facing mouthpieces of a policy that's (pretty generally) despised and derided. They choose to go along with the party line, and the only way to get at the line managers is to criticise those mouthpieces, as robustly as possible.

They may be of "little relevance" to your listening, but they are very relevant to the general rise in blood-pressure which their off-the-cuff remarks often inspire in many members of Radio 3's, disenchanted "core audience".

I've no particular animus against Ms Derham, by the way: though she does personify a snobbish, middle-class "lifestyle" magazine-sales approach to art music which I find both corrosive and exclusive (no wonder the "young audiences" she's supposed to be attracting are put off). My facetious little posting does mask an intense anger against the whole, misguided approach to popularising music, though: and my frustration (shared perhaps by many) at the imperious way in which those anonymous line managers shrug off the less subjective objections raised, semi-officially, by the Forum.

[Sir Velo]

Sorry to have raised your hackles. However, I don't view it as a "trap", or an attack on unfair game. After all, these presenters are the outward-facing mouthpieces of a policy that's (pretty generally) despised and derided. They choose to go along with the party line, and the only way to get at the line managers is to criticise those mouthpieces, as robustly as possible.

They may be of "little relevance" to your listening, but they are very relevant to the general rise in blood-pressure which their off-the-cuff remarks often inspire in many members of Radio 3's, disenchanted "core audience".

I've no particular animus against Ms Derham, by the way: though she does personify a snobbish, middle-class "lifestyle" magazine-sales approach to art music which I find both corrosive and exclusive (no wonder the "young audiences" she's supposed to be attracting are put off). My facetious little posting does mask an intense anger against the whole, misguided approach to popularising music, though: and my frustration (shared perhaps by many) at the imperious way in which those anonymous line managers shrug off the less subjective objections raised, semi-officially, by the Forum.

If you look at the Breakfast thread, you'll find that Eine doesn't always practise what he preaches.

[Master Jacques]

If you look at the Breakfast thread, you'll find that Eine doesn't always practise what he preaches.

Ah, how very few of us consistently manage that! It's fair to have our theoretical standards, even if we don't always live up to them.