Televised Proms

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 24-07-15, 19:48

I've just mentioned this on the R3 Facebook Page - as politely as I could.

**Nachtigall** · 02-08-15, 18:33

So tonight we have on BBC4 a concert including Elgar's Second Symphony "curated by" Katie Derham and Mark Elder. Mark Elder is worth listening to but we don't want the symphony carved up into slices so that he can slip his comments between the movements. An introduction would have sufficed.

Furthermore, we get none of the sense of anticipation at the start of a concert, with the conductor entering to applause and taking a bow. I also think the TV sound transmission is less than satisfactory, even when played through a hi-fi system. There seems to be a lack of real immediacy.

**kernelbogey** · 02-08-15, 18:42

Having comments between movements is a terrible idea.

**VodkaDilc** · 02-08-15, 19:41

Originally posted by Nachtigall View Post

So tonight we have on BBC4 a concert including Elgar's Second Symphony "curated by" Katie Derham and Mark Elder. Mark Elder is worth listening to but we don't want the symphony carved up into slices so that he can slip his comments between the movements. An introduction would have sufficed.

Furthermore, we get none of the sense of anticipation at the start of a concert, with the conductor entering to applause and taking a bow. I also think the TV sound transmission is less than satisfactory, even when played through a hi-fi system. There seems to be a lack of real immediacy.

I was about to write exactly this. Having enjoyed the concert in the RAH I was expecting good things - but the lack of continuity ruined it. We hear lots of fuss about applause between movements (which doesn't bother me too much), but this was a hundred times worse. If we must have an introduction, let's have it all together - though I did find Elder's comments had some strange priorities. All very bitty, and, as Nachtigall has written, no feeling of being at a concert.

Was there also a certain economising in the number of cameras involved? We did not seem to have much variety; and I did notice that the camera usually placed in the middle of the arena, where the fountain used to be, was missing. Do they have a hierarchy of Proms when it comes to television coverage? More cameras for the full concerts, first and last nights and so on - and fewer for those where only one work is destined to be shown on 'real' television.

**muzzer** · 03-08-15, 18:48

Please can the iplayer include a warning if the presenters are going to vomit platitudes uncontrollably before any music actually starts. Specifically the double barrelled twin assault of Klein and Service.

**BassOne83** · 04-08-15, 11:27

How insulting to Sir Mark Elder. Probably has more musical talent in his little finger nail than you have in your whole being.

**secondfiddle** · 04-08-15, 13:11

Originally posted by Nachtigall View Post

So tonight we have on BBC4 a concert including Elgar's Second Symphony "curated by" Katie Derham and Mark Elder. Mark Elder is worth listening to but we don't want the symphony carved up into slices so that he can slip his comments between the movements. An introduction would have sufficed.

Absolutely agree. There have been a number of 'experiments' over the years with televised Proms and they have usually been dropped after a short while. This is one of the worst and the sooner it is dropped the better.

Having heard the Prom R3 live, I looked forward to seeing the Elgar the other evening, but the stupid idea of interrupting the movements with a commentary ruined the broadcast and I didn't want to see it right the way through. Symphonies require continuity of concentration (which is why applause after movements is so unnecessary, probably from people who are only superficially listening) and intervals are often a useful break for the listener to gather his/her thoughts and feelings before the work proceeds. Talking in between completely wrecks the atmosphere.

**Richard Tarleton** · 04-08-15, 13:36

The approach adopted on Sky Arts, where Kent Nagano has dissected various works in rehearsal with the orchestra (Alpensinfonie, Bruckner 8 etc.) followed by a playthrough (in this case the Prom, of course) without interruption would have been preferable. Having said which, I was grateful to Sir Mark for his insights (wasn't there another televised dissection of Elgar 2 recently?) as I'm in that probably vanishingly small minority of forumites whom Elgar's symphonies continue to elude. I have been trying for 40 years or more

As it was, I heard and understood what he said, but....

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 04-08-15, 13:54

Originally posted by BassOne83 View Post

How insulting to Sir Mark Elder. Probably has more musical talent in his little finger nail than you have in your whole being.

I don't the barbs were really aimed at Sir Mark, but at the producers who squeeze his comments into a recording of a live performance.

**ucanseetheend** · 04-08-15, 15:01

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

I don't the barbs were really aimed at Sir Mark, but at the producers who squeeze his comments into a recording of a live performance.

Well I'm biased, I have never had any time for "anything"of Elders and as an Elgar officianado I certainly have no intention of watching The BBC self indulgent production jerks play a game alongside this guy with one of the great mans compositions.

**french frank** · 04-08-15, 15:47

Originally posted by secondfiddle View Post

Absolutely agree. There have been a number of 'experiments' over the years with televised Proms and they have usually been dropped after a short while. This is one of the worst and the sooner it is dropped the better.

Wht seems inexplicable is that BBC Four already has a much smaller audience than either of the popular stations. So they televise the Proms in such a way that the natural Proms audience will be deterred from watching

**Anna** · 04-08-15, 21:56

Originally posted by french frank View Post

So they televise the Proms in such a way that the natural Proms audience will be deterred from watching

I was wondering the very same thing. I settled down to watch Elgar 2 on Sunday – not because I’m the biggest fan of Elgar but because I haven’t so far managed to see any of the televised Proms.

A pre-concert, post concert or interval talk is good, explain the music, composer’s state of mind/circumstances, his decision not to embark upon an affair, etc., all very interesting but when the caption came up “End of First Movement” and an explanatory talk ensued I couldn’t believe they would split a symphony into episodic chunks.

Now I’ve found a blurb which says “BBC4 Sunday's Symphonies: programmes focus on the key symphonies performed across the season, presented by Katie Derham and Sir Mark Elder” Does this mean all their Sunday symphony broadcasts are to be treated this way, is this approach designed to draw in new listeners? Not so much a sort of ersatz Discovering Music - more like Bleeding Chunks for Cbeebies!

**muzzer** · 05-08-15, 06:40

I think you can watch it uninterrupted on iplayer. The Beeb appears to be doing with the proms what it did with Glastonbury and make multiple versions of some nights available. Not clear to me which is which though.

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 05-08-15, 06:48

Originally posted by muzzer View Post

I think you can watch it uninterrupted on iplayer. The Beeb appears to be doing with the proms what it did with Glastonbury and make multiple versions of some nights available. Not clear to me which is which though.

Maybe they'll do a version with a Hobbit in the bottom right hand corner doing sign language throughout the performance. (I shouldn't give them ideas.)