Televised Proms

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I once heard a church organist fumble
therefore all organists and organ music are cr*p?


We all have to work with idiots sometimes

Yes, but when the Vaudeville Theatre does the same for a Royal Ballet production (The Wind in the Willows), it's time to make a stand.

[MrGongGong]

Yes, but when the Vaudeville Theatre does the same for a Royal Ballet production (The Wind in the Willows), it's time to make a stand.

I saw someone fall over in a ballet performance at the ROH
therefore all ballet is rubbish

It's time to make a cake stand

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I saw someone fall over in a ballet performance at the ROH
therefore all ballet is rubbish

It's time to make a cake stand

Diverting the argument?

I attended the premiere of a choral work in which the composer made a small misjudgement in his orchestration at one point, so that a solo singer was swamped for a few seconds. A quick revision of the passage would have solved the problem admirably. Instead, in subsequent performances, all the soloists were amplified throughout. It sounded horrible.

[Serial_Apologist]

Go on… :biggrin)

All right then.

Back in the mid-1960s, Manfred Mann posted an ad in Melody Maker: "Manfred wants more men!". The intention was to bulk up the overall group sound by having a couple of horn players doing riffs at pre-arranged moments in performance: nothing much in the way of solos, though. Jack Bruce - ex Alexis Korner's Blues Inc., Graham Bond Organisation, of Cream fame to come, and already in the band, suggested Henry Lowther, with whom he had been working in an avant-garde group called the Jazz Mods, on trumpet. The latter group also included a saxophonist called Lyn Dobson. When Henry suggested having him as well, Manfred took him on on trust.

Like most of the better-known acts of the time, Manfred Mann spent a lot of its time touring various musical hot-spots up and down the country, motoring up and down the A1 and A6, such as they still were. Strange to relate, they had no van, the usual means of personnel and equipment transportation; Manfred would drive from venue to venue in his Morris Minor, it being assumed that the venues would supply the necessary PA etc. He would sometimes give Paul Jones a lift; other members of the band would have to get to performances under their own steam.

As it happened, Lyn Dobson had no car of his own, and would hitch from place to place. One such was Grimsby (from memory). Dobson had hitched lifts all the way up the A1 from London, and across to the east coast. On arriving just in time to perform - there was no time for a sound check - Lyn unpacks his saxophone, and in horror tells Henry that he's forgotten to bring any reeds. "Don't worry", Henry says; "just roll up a bit of newspaper and stick it into the end of the instrument to simulate a reed, and mime the gig". This he did! This was in the days before bands used monitors, instead relying on stacking the speakers behind the band. Such was the level of volume that any sounds coming from the sax and trumpet were completely wiped out; and so nobody noticed!!!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

All right then.

Back in the mid-1960s, Manfred Mann posted an ad in Melody Maker: "Manfred wants more men!". The intention was to bulk up the overall group sound by having a couple of horn players doing riffs at pre-arranged moments in performance: nothing much in the way of solos, though. Jack Bruce - ex Alexis Korner's Blues Inc., Graham Bond Organisation, of Cream fame to come, and already in the band, suggested Henry Lowther, with whom he had been working in an avant-garde group called the Jazz Mods, on trumpet. The latter group also included a saxophonist called Lyn Dobson. When Henry suggested having him as well, Manfred took him on on trust.

Like most of the better-known acts of the time, Manfred Mann spent a lot of its time touring various musical hot-spots up and down the country, motoring up and down the A1 and A6, such as they still were. Strange to relate, they had no van, the usual means of personnel and equipment transportation; Manfred would drive from venue to venue in his Morris Minor, it being assumed that the venues would supply the necessary PA etc. He would sometimes give Paul Jones a lift; other members of the band would have to get to performances under their own steam.

As it happened, Lyn Dobson had no car of his own, and would hitch from place to place. One such was Grimsby (from memory). Dobson had hitched lifts all the way up the A1 from London, and across to the east coast. On arriving just in time to perform - there was no time for a sound check - Lyn unpacks his saxophone, and in horror tells Henry that he's forgotten to bring any reeds. "Don't worry", Henry says; "just roll up a bit of newspaper and stick it into the end of the instrument to simulate a reed, and mime the gig". This he did! This was in the days before bands used monitors, instead relying on stacking the speakers behind the band. Such was the level of volume that any sounds coming from the sax and trumpet were completely wiped out; and so nobody noticed!!!

Brilliant!

It reminds me of a youth band open-air concert a few years ago at a stately home. Three bands were participating, including one I was conducting. Each band was scheduled to play for around 35 minutes, and all had prepared diligently for the occasion.

On our arrival, we were told that the stately home owner's nephew would now be doing a quarter of the concert. Could we cut our contributions down to 25 minutes each? (it was a rhetorical question, as we had no choice.)

So, when the young man's slot came, he sang various ballads with a backing track, and it all sounded rather good - and then when he had a coughing fit, it carried on sounding rather good. We were furious, having cumulatively trashed 30 minutes of prepared music just to allow the audience to be conned by someone miming.

[MrGongGong]

Diverting the argument?

NO

The instances you cite of amplification being done badly doesn't mean that ALL amplification is bad

Black Angels?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

NO

The instances you cite of amplification being done badly doesn't mean that ALL amplification is bad

Black Angels?

I would say it's only OK if you are not aware of it.

Anyway, how did amplification get on to this thread?


Buskers with a backing track.

[MrGongGong]

I would say it's only OK if you are not aware of it.

So you don't enjoy live electronics?
Or Metal?
Or dance music?
or
or
or

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

...or shouting.

[MrGongGong]

...or shouting.

It's not all about massive amplitude

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It's not all about massive amplitude

I'm aware of that. My issue is with the idea that music needs to be amplified. Go to our local jazz club and a group of saxophonists, trumpets, drums, etc. think they need to be amplified. Why?
Opera North (who should know better) performed Mozart's Marriage of Figaro with an amplified harpsichord (which sounded hideous) a couple of seasons after they had performed La Rondine with an amplified piano.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is the real issue, to return to topic:-

Suzy Klein's timely article fits very well with a policy to boost the non-classical Proms - and thus lower the profile of the classical ones.

The Red Button Proms:-

Prom 8: Late Night With ... BBC Asian Network, watch online at bbc.co.uk/proms, 22 July
Prom 16: Late Night With ... BBC Radio 1, watch online at bbc.co.uk/proms, 29 July
Prom 27: Late Night With ... BBC Radio 6 Music, watch online at bbc.co.uk/proms, 5 August
Prom 37: Late Night With ... BBC Radio 1Xtra, watch online at bbc.co.uk/proms, 12 August

It's like being back at school when everyone sucks up to the bullies.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm aware of that. My issue is with the idea that music needs to be amplified. Go to our local jazz club and a group of saxophonists, trumpets, drums, etc. think they need to be amplified. Why?

Sometimes because of the proportion of people present who want to be seen rather than be there for the music; more often because of the level of audience decibels reached by a combination of conviviality and booze overcoming those from the band (especially in acoustic bass solos!).

There are clubs where acoustic chamber jazz is sometimes performed without amplification: one client complained about me consuming potato crisps when the air conditioning was in fact louder.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is the real issue, to return to topic:-




The Red Button Proms:-

Prom 8: Late Night With ... BBC Asian Network, watch online at bbc.co.uk/proms, 22 July
Prom 16: Late Night With ... BBC Radio 1, watch online at bbc.co.uk/proms, 29 July
Prom 27: Late Night With ... BBC Radio 6 Music, watch online at bbc.co.uk/proms, 5 August
Prom 37: Late Night With ... BBC Radio 1Xtra, watch online at bbc.co.uk/proms, 12 August

It's like being back at school when everyone sucks up to the bullies.

Why don't they put tonight's (Prom 10 - Beethoven, Stravinsky, Schoenberg) concert on the red button. It they really want to push the Proms, rather than destroy them, they might consider this.

[french frank]

Why don't they put tonight's (Prom 10 - Beethoven, Stravinsky, Schoenberg) concert on the red button. It they really want to push the Proms, rather than destroy them, they might consider this.

This is the reason I was asking on the Techie board three weeks ago about what I thought was a live webcast (don't how Red Button works). All these four are among the rare Proms that can be watched live. They really are giving them a big boost (and I'm told the Radio 1 Prom was the subject of Front Row tonight - 'It deserves a place'). The BBC seems to be aiming to whip up publicity - and hostility from those who feel it's getting too much of the Proms publicity. Talk about a rudderless ship drifting nowhere.