Proms 2015: Today's the day

[Richard Barrett]

It "strikes" Ferretfancy that "few of those first performances led on to second performances and entered the repertory". How much research is this based on? a constant and exhaustive scrutiny of concert programmes not just in little England but throughout Europe, both Americas, Asia, Australia...? What does it mean to "enter the repertoire"? FG has already commented on this with reference to Bach and Haydn. I can comment on it with reference to my own work. Or, better still, I can point you at the "concerts" page on my website. I count 14 countries throughout the world in which performances are taking place (to my knowledge, which depends on the performer(s) contacting me about performances, which they don't always do) between the beginning of 2015 and September, which is as far as the diary goes at the moment, amounting to fiftysomething separate performances, four of which are premieres.

[MrGongGong]

I count 14 countries throughout the world in which performances are taking place (to my knowledge, which depends on the performer(s) contacting me about performances, which they don't always do) between the beginning of 2015 and September, which is as far as the diary goes at the moment, amounting to fiftysomething separate performances, four of which are premieres.

Not bad for a confidence trickster making ugly abrasive noise

[teamsaint]

Depends what you mean by "modern". I've been pondering this very topic since last August when I went to the Mattisse "cut-outs" exhibition at Tate modern. The space was completely full for the eight hours it was open - and this was true for every day of the months it was exhibited. The range of the people there in terms of age, sex, class and "ethnicity" was far more varied than I'd ever seen at a Prom, for example - and I started to wonder why it is that a series of concerts of Stravinsky's last works almost certainly wouldn't attract this number and range of people.

But I don't think it's just "modern" work - if the Artist had been Turner, I think there'd've been the same numbers and variety of people. And I don't think that all of them would have chosen to go along in the evening to a Beethoven evening (let alone a Haydn or Alkan concert). And look at the number of books on Art in any Waterstone's and compare it with the shelves devoted to Music.


Yes. (As was the very idea of an "author", of course ) But (I would imagine) that most readers choose to read novels starting at the first page and continuing (even with "recaps") to the last. They still have the option, which they don't have in a concert performance of a piece of Music presented to them (even if the performers have chosen not to start at page one and continue to the end in sequence).

The popularity thing is, for the reason you point out and more, very hard to judge, even if it is worth trying to judge. I am really just challenging Barbi's assumption. ( I chose Matisse, unspoken, and RVW as both popular and broadly contemporaneous) and one might look at the popularity, ( record sales, performances etc,) of Reich or John Adams, (or indeed Radiohead) with other popular artists (exhibition attendances, book sales) like Emin or Hirst, or Banksy perhaps .

Interesting point about the paucity of books on music shelves in book shops. Considering the massive size of the music business , it is a constant surprise. I suppose that books work well on art simply on the level of showing the art, which , in music doesn't always work so well.
Unless it is a volume of Ferneyhough Scores, of course.


Re the construction of written material, ( novels in the 60's, the death of the author, etc)...interesting to note that most blokes start to read the newspaper from the back .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

You a retired teacher
The other £150 has been stolen to pay for Trident

I couldn't possibly comment.

[MrGongGong]

I couldn't possibly comment.

Oh go on, you know you want to

[MrGongGong]

Oh go on, you know you want to

Last edited by Eine Alpensinfonie; Today at 11:05. Reason: political

[Richard Barrett]

Not bad for a confidence trickster making ugly abrasive noise

& don't get me wrong, I wasn't posting that to boast about anything - plenty of people have far more going on than this of course - but I just doubt that Ferretfancy knows what he's talking about with this "no second performances" assertion!

[Bryn]

No music education here. It's too political.

[Serial_Apologist]

who knows, you people might be able to think of something new to say!

[MrGongGong]

& don't get me wrong, I wasn't posting that to boast about anything - plenty of people have far more going on than this of course - but I just doubt that Ferretfancy knows what he's talking about with this "no second performances" assertion!

It's Stockhausen syndrome (the other one)

[french frank]

And there isn't the same amount of education devoted from a very young age to developing listening skills (not just Music) as there is devoted to developing skills for reading and seeing.

In terms of music, certainly, there seems to be (possibly?) more time devoted to creativity than listening. In fact, overall, creativity (for all) seems to be valued over appreciation. As has been pointed out, listening to a live concert performance imposes more demands or restrictions on a listener than attending an art exhibition.

[The only exhibition in our city art gallery which I recall had queues snaking round the streets waiting for hours to get in was the Banksy (my experience of going to Tate Modern was that people enjoyed finding things which made them laugh, which Banksy does).

[MrGongGong]

In terms of music, certainly, there seems to be (possibly?) more time devoted to creativity than listening.

I'm not sure there is more time devoted to "creativity"?
given that we have (in England) a plan for music education that doesn't contain the word Improvise (see also the SAM report on composition in education)
BUT listening strategies and skills have often been neglected in favour of "all join in" activities (not that there's anything wrong with joining in)

[P. G. Tipps]

Bollocks

What's wrong with noise?

On once again consulting my much-loved and utterly priceless copy of the Oxford English Dictionary, regarding the definition of 'noise', I note the following:

A sound, especially one that is loud or unpleasant or that causes disturbance:
( such as) ... making a noise like a pig.

There's your incontrovertible, definitive answer, Mr GongGong!

[vinteuil]

... Mr Tipps seems to labour under the delusion that the point of art is beauty.

I suggest he reconsiders his take on the works of Aeschylus, Shakespeare, Rembrandt, Goya, and Beethoven.

[MrGongGong]

On once again consulting my much-loved and utterly priceless copy of the Oxford English Dictionary, regarding the definition of 'noise', I note the following:

A sound, especially one that is loud or unpleasant or that causes disturbance:
( such as) ... making a noise like a pig.

There's your incontrovertible, definitive answer, Mr GongGong!

You are sadly far too narrow (and selective quoting in a Cleggy Styleeeee)

If you really think that's a "definitive" answer then i'm afraid you have failed completely

Dictionaries do not create meanings

"Noise" is also a scientific term

and (as we well know RE: Prom 75) one persons "noise" is another's Joy

and if it's Pigs you want (3 different ones?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yEPgmolNG0&spfreload=10