Proms 2015: Today's the day

[Beef Oven!]

The width (or slight lack of) of the coverage is what a number of posters criticize (including me). The quality of the orchestras and soloists are- I think - not in question. The problem lies in the quantity of certain parts of the season.

A few numbers:
a) the Beethoven Fest.


- 5 Piano Concertos + Choral Fantasy and Triple Concerto
in itself, no problem
- another 5 Symphonies and assorted smaller pieces
still ok, Beethoven is after all a brilliant composer, nothing wrong with celebrating him extensively every once in a while
- a full symphony cycle 2012
- 8 of 9 symphonies in 2014
- full piano concerto cycle 2010
in the 10 seasons between 2006 and 2015 we had:
Symphony No 1: 5 times
Symphony No 3: 7 times
Symphony No 4: 5 times
Symphony No 5: 7 times
Symphony No 6: 5 times
Symphony No 7: 6 times
Symphony No 9: 11 times (maybe one of the 2 outings 2007 was an excerpt?)

basically, there is a Beethoven fest every damn year. As he is also far from neglected during the rest of the year, this can tire out regulars.

Some other numbers of warhorses since 2000:

Holst, The Planets - 12 out of 16
Stravinsky, Firebird 1910 - 9 out of 16
Stravinsky, The Rite of Spring - 15 out of 16
Stravinsky, Petrushka - 11 out of 16
Tchaikovsky, Symphony No 4 - 9 out of 16
Tchaikovsky, Symphony No 5 - 9 out of 16
Shostakovich, Symphony No 5 - 8 out of 16
Shostakovich, Symphony No 10 - 12 out of 16
Ravel, Bolero - 9 out of 16
Ravel, Daphnis et Chloé -14 out of 16
Ravel, La Valse - 12 out of 16
Brahms, Symphony No 1 - 8 out of 16
Brahms, Symphony No 4 - 9 out of 16
Brahms, Violin Concerto - 10 out of 16
Berlioz, Sinfonie fantastique - 13 out of 16
Strauss, Till Eulenspiegel - 9 out of 16

If you cut a little bit of these warhorses - not completely, just every third (or second, when it comes to Ravel, the planets or the Rite of Spring) performance, you suddenly have room to include other composers/pieces. Not necessarily cutting edge modern pieces scored for bicycle and turntables. One could possibly even give Lalo his second or even third outing since 1961. Or Taneyev a second shot outright (the first and only piece by him was performed in 1925).

Great Festival, no doubt. Great music, Great performers (lousy hall). But it could be and do more.

Very interesting information, points well made, many thanks.

[Barbirollians]

.
You are spot on here, FF.

the much criticised Mahler 2 " chamber Prom" went down a storm in the arena a couple of years ago, and a lot of people went away very happy that night, many probably having heard Mahler played live for the first time.

THere is a vast amount of learning ( and enjoyment) going on, at highly affordable pricing, and that is to be cherished.

We would all want the programmes more to our liking, and we can all make valid criticisms of it. But that it is too important a festival to not see the fantastic things it does, as well as the regrettable.

The reason why contemporary classical music is nowhere near as popular as modern art is very simple - much of it sounds like terrible noise and not music .

[teamsaint]

The reason why contemporary classical music is nowhere near as popular as modern art is very simple - much of it sounds like terrible noise and not music .

Well that is as maybe..... But i think you have quoted the wrong post, Barbi.

[Richard Barrett]

much of it sounds like terrible noise and not music

And that's the good stuff!

[Ferretfancy]

The reason why contemporary classical music is nowhere near as popular as modern art is very simple - much of it sounds like terrible noise and not music .

When I worked alongside television journalists, I often felt that they seemed more concerned about impressing each other rather than informing the audience. It was probably a mistaken impression on my part, but I can't help feeling that something of the same kind operates with some contemporary composers.
I'm still willing to be challenged by the new, but much of what we hear is so abstruse that it's impossible to gain an entry.

There's also the fact that many of the techniques employed today are beginning to seem like old hat. Banging cymbals and dipping them in a bucket of water, or playing them with a violin bow to make a gentle squeak were with us in the 1960s and haven't changed, likewise the writing that always centres on the extremes of an instrument's range.

If this sort of stuff still captures an audience, I'm reminded of Beecham's comment that British people don't like music, but they like the sound that it makes.

[MrGongGong]

The reason why contemporary classical music is nowhere near as popular as modern art is very simple - much of it sounds like terrible noise and not music .

Bollocks

What's wrong with noise?

[MrGongGong]

And that's the good stuff!

I'm still willing to be challenged by the new, but much of what we hear is so abstruse that it's impossible to gain an entry.

Excuse me, there might be children reading this
so leave your smut outside

[Bryn]

The Rollo contingent is out in farce tonight, what?

[Richard Barrett]

I often felt that they seemed more concerned about impressing each other rather than informing the audience. It was probably a mistaken impression on my part, but I can't help feeling that something of the same kind operates with some contemporary composers.

With respect, Ferretfancy, that is nonsense.

[Richard Barrett]

There's also the fact that many of the techniques employed today are beginning to seem like old hat. Banging cymbals and dipping them in a bucket of water

Yes, and then there's blowing down flutes and oboes, they've been doing that for centuries!

Anyway, good to see all the old chestnuts are being disposed of before the Proms even begin this year - who knows, you people might be able to think of something new to say!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, and then there's blowing down flutes and oboes, they've been doing that for centuries.

Are you sure about that?

[Richard Barrett]

Are you sure about that?

Damn, I'll never understand these modern techniques.

[Barbirollians]

When I worked alongside television journalists, I often felt that they seemed more concerned about impressing each other rather than informing the audience. It was probably a mistaken impression on my part, but I can't help feeling that something of the same kind operates with some contemporary composers.
I'm still willing to be challenged by the new, but much of what we hear is so abstruse that it's impossible to gain an entry.

There's also the fact that many of the techniques employed today are beginning to seem like old hat. Banging cymbals and dipping them in a bucket of water, or playing them with a violin bow to make a gentle squeak were with us in the 1960s and haven't changed, likewise the writing that always centres on the extremes of an instrument's range.

If this sort of stuff still captures an audience, I'm reminded of Beecham's comment that British people don't like music, but they like the sound that it makes.

FF you have hit the nail on the head - no doubt that it why the abuse has started .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

FF you have hit the nail on the head - no doubt that it why the abuse has started .

Oh, I wouldn't call expressions like "much of it sounds like terrible noise and not Music" "abuse", Barbi - just ignorant.

Still, good to hear you're filling your wall and floor space with Damien Hirsts, Tracey Emins and Martin Creeds. (Is the latter's Music more to your taste, too?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-7brUXDWY

[teamsaint]

I'm still not clear how modern art is provably more popular than modern music. Lots of questions.

for example, would modern music encompass everything, or just some loosely defined "categories".
Example: lots of people would consider Radiohead modern, contemporary, cutting edge,or whatever. But they are/were enormously popular, and I would think that many people would equate their quality with that of work on display in major galleries in London.

and, to return to an aspect of the conversation that didn't get developed yesterday, does this "popularity" of modern art extend to a real mass marketplace, ( for better or worse), which is at least one indicator of popularity. some modern "classical" composers do actually find a decent Market for their work.