Prom 75 - 12.09.14: Cerha / Beethoven 9, Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra, etc., Gilbert

[BBMmk2]

Me and Mrs BBM, thoroughly enjoyed this performance. A really full-blooded sounding orchestra, choruses and soloists as well. Although, just where the soloists have their quartet, just before the final prestissimo, did the sound drop?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As opposed to the universal respect demonstrated in "gullibility"?

Fashion IS largely gullibility. That does NOT mean that everyone who's opinions reflect a current fashion are themselves gullible.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Fashion IS largely gullibility. That does NOT mean that everyone who's opinions reflect a current fashion are themselves gullible.

Can you bring to mind any "fashion" ("current" or otherwise) that remained "in fashion" for over forty years?

Can you cite any performer working today who plays Music written in the early 19th Century in the way that it was performed in the 1940s? If they attempted to do so, wouldn't it justifiably be described as "quaint"?

The glories of the HIPP discoveries is that the Music is revealed in wonderful new ways to the receptive Musician - performing the work as it was done thirty and more years ago now sounds quaint

... misleading word placement here; better ...

The glories of the HIPP discoveries is that the Music is revealed in wonderful new ways to the receptive Musician - performing the work now as it was done thirty and more years ago sounds quaint

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Can you bring to mind any "fashion" ("current" or otherwise) that remained "in fashion" for over forty years?

Can you cite any performer working today who plays Music written in the early 19th Century in the way that it was performed in the 1940s? If they attempted to do so, wouldn't it justifiably be described as "quaint"?

Different, maybe, but definitely not "quaint". That's just patronising.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Different, maybe, but definitely not "quaint". That's just patronising.

No, you are wrong; it isn't "just patronising". Altering the composer's orchestration and ignoring the markings in the score isn't being "different": it is precisely being "quaint".

Suggesting that performers who respect the composers' orchestrations, dynamics and structural markers - and who take time to research what might have been meant by, for example, Allegretto - are demonstrating "gullibility" is "patronizing" - not "just" patronizing, but unjust and disgraceful.

[Barbirollians]

No, you are wrong; it isn't "just patronising". Altering the composer's orchestration and ignoring the markings in the score isn't being "different": it is precisely being "quaint".

Suggesting that performers who respect the composers' orchestrations, dynamics and structural markers - and who take time to research what might have been meant by, for example, Allegretto - are demonstrating "gullibility" is "patronizing" - not "just" patronizing, but unjust and disgraceful.

Apparently the original sense of quaint in English was wise , clever and ingenious - sums up Furtwangler 's Beethoven to me !

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Suggesting that performers who respect the composers' orchestrations, dynamics and structural markers - and who take time to research what might have been meant by, for example, Allegretto - are demonstrating "gullibility" is "patronizing" - not "just" patronizing, but unjust and disgraceful.

I do suggest a little flexibility here. Tinkering with orchestration is one thing, but there is it "quaint" for a pianist to play what Beethoven clearly wanted in the D major sonata Op. 10 no. 3, when the composer had to fudge the right hand because his piano only went up to F, so the sequence had to be aborted, whereas in the recapitulation, no such compromise was necessary? I'm going to be "quaint", just as Barenboim and other non-obsessive still continue to be in the Scherzo of Beethoven 9. A performing musician is a servant who should show respect - not a slave who must blindly obey.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

the composer had to fudge the right hand because his piano only went up to F

But how do you know this, Alpie - unless you've had the gullibilty to do the research? Careful, now - you'll be calling yourself an "obsessive" before long (and then arguing with yourself whether that's patronizing language or not).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I often argue with myself. That way, I can guarantee to win (and lose) every time.

Incidentally, have you ever tried playing chess with yourself. It's incredibly difficult not to take sides.

[Nick Armstrong]

I often argue with myself. That way, I can guarantee to win (and lose) every time.

I suppose the key is to try not to come to blows about anything....

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I suppose the key is to try not to come to blows about anything....

That's unavoidable. I'm an oboist.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That's unavoidable. I'm an oboist.

Ah! It's an ill wind ....
































You are absolutely right, of course.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And so am I!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]