Prom 72 - 10.09.14: BBC SO, Berthaud / Litton

[pastoralguy]

Is VW4 the greatest British Symphony?

Isn't that ANY symphony by George Lloyd?

[Barbirollians]

Is VW4 the greatest British Symphony?

No - Elgar 1 is.

[Beef Oven!]

Is VW4 the greatest British Symphony?

More like Robert Simpson's 9th.

[seabright]

More like Robert Simpson's 9th.

How many performances has it had? Please list all the domestic and Continental performances it has received, as well as all those that have been given in the USA.

[Petrushka]

Is VW4 the greatest British Symphony?

Elgar 2 for me.

[Sir Velo]

How many performances has it had? Please list all the domestic and Continental performances it has received, as well as all those that have been given in the USA.

Very few, but that is no reflection on its quality.

Moeran's Symphony in G minor for me.

[Blotto]

I was also there (my one Prom) and, while I'm a much bigger enthusiast for the Walton Viola Concerto and the V-W 4 than Blotto, I'm with him on the Birtwhistle. I wondered if it was Andrew Litton who was being dutiful in getting through it but was finding it a bit hard going but I think that I was trying not to admit to myself that it is simply not a very interesting piece of music. Is it something to do with commissions from well-endowed orchestras for half-hour pieces sometimes making composers just a touch lazy?

The Triumph of Time is an effective work but, so far, I think Birtwistle's music is better suited to smaller ensembles than a symphony orchestra which generally seems to bloat his sound rather than diversifying it or simply making it any more impressive.

I read some remarks about Exody after Birtwistle heard it last year in Japan. He found the precision of the Japanese orchestra helped it and felt that it hadn't had a good performance previously; he made an observation that great conductors tend to treat all music like Wagner and shape it, clearly meaning that it wasn't appropriate for this. To me, it was mustard soup for a main course.

[Blotto]

Wow! That's quite an assessment! Just woken up after a nightmare and reached for ipad. Must listen to VW 4.

I recall similarly vitriolic critiques from Arthur Jacobs on a bad night.

Dear gents,

I apologise if I caused any upset.

EA, I saw your comment about the VW when I logged in. It seemed clearly to express esteem for the symphony and I thought for some time before posting my remarks. Impatience won out but, though our remarks are adjacent, I assure you mine was not intended as any kind of comment your own.

On reflection, it was a long, rotten programme of pieces which subverted one another. The Birtwistle felt absolutely unsuited to the others (prefaced by Greensleeves!!) and it enervated the audience. I can't remember anything about wind music in Exody, at all. Otherwise, it sounded like 30-odd minutes of vague, repetitive fretting from the strings and generic percussion chatter. I really can't guess at the standards of the performances, though the VW seemed the best played but it shouldn't have been jammed up against the Walton; the brevity of the pause between them looked managerial rather than musical. After such a long, unrewarding work as Exody, stretching the show to finish with the sombre VW was too much. In fact, to my mind, after Exody stretching the show with anything was too much. I should have left because I wasn't receptive to what followed.

[pastoralguy]

Wow! That's quite an assessment! Just woken up after a nightmare and reached for ipad. Must listen to VW 4.

No apology necessary! I really HAD woken up from a nightmare and reached for the ipad!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm not upset either. Your anger and frustration seemed to be directed more towards the concert programme itself.

[Blotto]

Really, EA, I have to say that the individual musics were a problem in themselves. But, yes, I felt the selection and organisation of the programme made the evening intolerable.

I will be very interested to hear the views of other listeners who have more sympathy with the music, especially those listening on the radio as the concert hall itself really didn't favour most of it. Even Greensleeves seemed muted from the arena.

[Serial_Apologist]

Really, EA, I have to say that the individual musics were a problem in themselves. But, yes, I felt the selection and organisation of the programme made the evening intolerable.

I will be very interested to hear the views of other listeners who have more sympathy with the music, especially those listening on the radio as the concert hall itself really didn't favour most of it. Even Greensleeves seemed muted from the arena.

Well while "Greensleeves" isn't necessarily one of VW's most important or noteworthy works, (pace John Coltrane!), I would think his Fourth Symphony certainly is; but not having heard either the Birtwistle nor this partcular version I shall suspend judgement on this prom for the time being.

[Blotto]

Well while "Greensleeves" isn't necessarily one of VW's most important or noteworthy works

I hadn't realised it but the concert programme revealed to me that it was another musician's arrangement of VW music (from 'Sir John in Love', I think) and hadn't been played at a Prom since its debut. It is a brief and light piece, of course, however it's also quite lovely and can be potent music - but seemed not yesterday.

[Lento]

If one believes (as I do) that music should communicate with the listener, this just felt like someone shouting at me for 31 minutes.

I think I remember someone on the radio saying that Birtwistle doesn't consider the audience, but I may be entirely wrong. Haven't heard this concert so no further comment.

[Rasluap]

Even Greensleeves seemed muted from the arena.

The arena was half full last night, but even that did not eliminate applause between the movements of the Walton and V-W. The attendance in the hall was modestly larger than for the second Cleveland concert on Monday.

The performance of Greensleeves was beautifully understated which made the flute contribution from Daniel Pailthorpe breathtaking. It's only a four minute piece and positioned at the start of the concert does not invite large-scale applause.

For me, as a programme this was challenging and enjoyable. Litton appears to have an excellent rapport with the BBCSO, which I have noted previously at a Maida Vale concert with the same forces. I'm not an expert on the Walton, but for me the Symphony was a rugged and heartfelt performance with as good an ending as I have ever heard. The Arts Desk review of the evening is worth checking out, as it differs considerably in opinion from the comments posted here.