Prom 64 - 5.09.14: Berlin PO, Rattle

[Nick Armstrong]

Rattle's tendency toward micromanagement of detail

Just happened upon a performance of Schumann 2 on 'another radio station' - coming in half way through, I listened blind and started to want to chuck things at whoever was on the podium, pulling it around and fussing and fiddling.

Turned out it was S'Simon from that latest

Schumann cycle... CDs in their LOVELY packaging, like chocolates!

I think I'd prefer a packet of crisps.

[amateur51]

[QUOTE=Caliban;426939]Just happened upon a performance of Schumann 2 on 'another radio station' - coming in half way through, I listened blind and started to want to chuck things at whoever was on the podium, pulling it around and fussing and fiddling.
You must hate the Furtwangler/BPO recording of Schumann symphony no. 4 then

Stephen Pruslin, reviewing this set in the a recent IRR, rated it very highly but he listens with his eyes open

[Nick Armstrong]

I heard it this week! It was on Rob Cowan's programme. Didn't mind it, just seemed a little slow to me...

[amateur51]

I heard it this week! It was on Rob Cowan's programme. Didn't mind it, just seemed a little slow to me...

The performance is noted for huge 'play to the gallery' accelerandi

[Nick Armstrong]

The performance is noted for huge 'play to the gallery' accelerandi

As my grandpa might have said: he'd have done better to start at the right speed in the first place!

[cloughie]

Sometimes I think our expectations rise to unrealistic levels when the great orchestras of Berlin and Vienna arrive at the Proms. Both still have their own stunning qualities, but both will show variations over time - and there's nothing wrong with that.

Rattle has done sterling work with the BPO, with an orchestra already at the top of the tree when he inherited his position.

In SDs and Firebird does there not need to be a certain raw edge - I could not and would not try to suggest that the BPO is not a great orchestra packed with the best musicians anywhere but do they do 'raw' in the way that is required by these works and where this element is required did not Sir Simon achieve it better wit the CBSO? and maybe hopefully he will come back and do it with the LSO! I felt the same with prom performances in previous years eg Mehta and the VPO doing the 'Rite'.

[amateur51]

As my grandpa might have said: he'd have done better to start at the right speed in the first place!

Let's leave the member for Bournemouth out of this, eh?

[Ferretfancy]

In SDs and Firebird does there not need to be a certain raw edge - I could not and would not try to suggest that the BPO is not a great orchestra packed with the best musicians anywhere but do they do 'raw' in the way that is required by these works and where this element is required did not Sir Simon achieve it better wit the CBSO? and maybe hopefully he will come back and do it with the LSO! I felt the same with prom performances in previous years eg Mehta and the VPO doing the 'Rite'.

This is just what I suggested earlier in my message 28. I was rather puzzled by the lack of any sense of danger in the playing. You gave another good example re the Rite with Zubin Mehta, it takes a certain talent to make it seem dull, but he did! I wonder, is it that the BPO simply cannot be shifted in their playing style, or has Rattle just lost his spark?

[Tony Halstead]

This is just what I suggested earlier in my message 28. I was rather puzzled by the lack of any sense of danger in the playing. You gave another good example re the Rite with Zubin Mehta, it takes a certain talent to make it seem dull, but he did! I wonder, is it that the BPO simply cannot be shifted in their playing style, or has Rattle just lost his spark?

On the evidence of the St Matthew Passion so far, the BPO can indeed 'be shifted in their playing style' ( thanks, Sir Simon!) as they are currently sounding uncannily like a very fine baroque orchestra, apart from the A=443 pitch.

[ucanseetheend]

Amazing how folk still queue up to see and hear the BPO or see Rattle. The most "ordinary" Symphonic Dances I have heard in many a year. The tempo was awful. "It's a Dance" Simon!! So glad I didnt bother to go.

[Alison]

Amazing how folk still queue up to see and hear the BPO or see Rattle. The most "ordinary" Symphonic Dances I have heard in many a year. The tempo was awful. "It's a Dance" Simon!! So glad I didnt bother to go.

Conductors like Petrenko or Jurowski take us much closer to the heart of Rachmaninov's orchestral masterpiece.

[LaurieWatt]

[QUOTE=gradus;426867]I enjoyed the concert and admired the playing. Never been reminded of Petrushka before by the opening bars of the second movt of the Symphonic Dances but the performance overall was not as gripping as others I've heard by less acclaimed orchestras, especially in the closing bars. Loads of lovely playing and detail in The Firebird but oddly uninvolving in the Infernal Dance and a bit flat thereafter. Oh well, I guess you had to be there.
QUOTE]

The Stravinsky was a huge disappointment for me, after a not bad but fairly flaccid but very well played Rachmaninov (he didn't make the most of his two gongs!!). The first half hour of the Stravinsky seemed completely interminable; ok, lovely playing but no tension, no shape. As soon as it started to liven up (a relative expression here) the playing and ensemble was not always as immaculate as most reviews of this concert have made out, but this Katschei was completely past it, his teeth were falling out and wouldn't have frightened a pussycat. I went back to a Prom I recorded from the early 1980's with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra under their then Principal Conductor, Rudolf Barshai - a performance to knock your socks off, snarly evil, real edge of the seat stuff. Maybe not the refulgent tones and finesse of the Berlinners but they were not far short. Wonderful orchestra as the BPO is, and, much as everyone makes of this, and, which so many critics indulge, I am not sure I can remember when they last had me on the edge of my seat. I should just add that this is more or less the comment I made against the review in Classicalsource.com. Also, the very poor broadcast might have contributed to my impression of the performance, but 'lively, exciting and edge of the seat' is just that and it can usually survive poor sound.

[jayne lee wilson]

What was your impression of the sound Laurie, how were you listening? On HDs at 320kbps as usual I only had a slight problem with a little fierceness (see no.20 above) but I was still impressed with the audio on the Rachmaninov especially...

[LaurieWatt]

What was your impression of the sound Laurie, how were you listening? On HDs at 320kbps as usual I only had a slight problem with a little fierceness (see no.20 above) but I was still impressed with the audio on the Rachmaninov especially...

Jayne, I was listening on Internet radio at 320kbps on very wide range equipment. I thought the sound rather soggy with a singular lack of bass - a small example being the bass drum in the Firebird, which, at its two really big moments, clattered, which sounded ridiculous. I didn't get a good sense of the Hall but that is something which one doesn't get much these days at the RAH from R3. The BSO/Barshai Prom, from, I think, 1983, to which I referred, was a far, far better sound overall in a real place than the Berliners were given! Also, particularly in the Rachmaninov the engineers kept bring forward the strings whenever they had their gorgeous tuttis. There was no sense in the broadcast that the bells, in the Firebird, which I gather were separately placed, were, indeed, so placed! Ironically the best sound, for me, was at the end of the Firebird. But you are right, other than the expanding strings at every opportunity the sound in the Rachmaninov was better. I just thought that the performance of the Symphonic Dances could have been so much more 'tight' and structured. Thinking here of Jurowski's way if doing it which is much more thrilling.

[gradus]

I agree about the Jurowski/LPO recording. I was at the performance in the RFH and it remains my favourite on disc.