Prom 62 - 3.09.14: Stuttgart RSO, Norrington

[Bryn]

I have now 'Listened Again', as indicated in #50, and find I do indeed concur with jlw re the outer movements of the Beethoven. At the tempi adopted for that acoustic, the phrasing RN waxed lyrical about was too heavily compromised. The Dvorak more than made up for such relative deficiencies, however.

[jayne lee wilson]

Yes - there was even one post that just discussed the giggling between the Movements of the Beethoven

FWiW - I thought the Dvorak was a lovely performance, with the balance between symphonic drama and lyricism perfectly judged. A performance that reminded me what a splendid work this is when the conductor approaches what the composer wrote with insight and imagination - and how determinedly un-triumphant the conclusion is; in this performance, not that far from the mood at the end of Brahms' Fourth Symphony (in the same key). I'm less keen on Norrington's way with Beethoven and Berlioz, but this is just personal preference - nothing that Norrington and the orchestra did with the Music didn't arise from what is written in the scores.

Cheap shot fhg, cheap shot... but in the spirit of things, of course...

Your last sentence here "nothing Norrington did with the music that didn't arise from what is written in the scores" ... tempted to say - that's just the trouble...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

As a fellow forumite once said, the score is just the recipe.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Cheap shot fhg, cheap shot... but in the spirit of things, of course...

"Cheap", maybe (I prefer "terrific value for money") but it reached the target.

Your last sentence here "nothing Norrington did with the music that didn't arise from what is written in the scores" ... tempted to say - that's just the trouble...

Give in to the temptation, and then explain what you mean.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

As a fellow forumite once said, the score is just the recipe.

Well precisely - ignore it and the edges get burnt whilst the middle stays soggy. And suddenly nobody comes to your dinner parties any more.

How else does one criticize a performance other than by reference to how it reproduces what is written in the score? If someone says it is "too fast", but it follows exactly the ingredients in the score, then the comment isn't genuine "criticism", it's an expression of "preference" - to which the performers can then demand "too fast for whom?"; "Why do you want us to play it at your preferred tempo rather than the composer's?" (or, perhaps, "Why do you want us to play it at the speed Klemperer takes it on the record you've owned since you were fourteen, rather than the ones Beethoven knew the Music demanded?") A piece of Music that needs to be in the oven of public performance for twenty minutes gets overbaked if the performers leave it there for thirty-five. (And, of course, the fresh ingredients of the instruments that the composer expected, rather than the processed packaging of modern ones ... Bet you're glad you introduced this metaphor now, Alpie )

[teamsaint]

I have now 'Listened Again', as indicated in #50, and find I do indeed concur with jlw re the outer movements of the Beethoven. At the tempi adopted for tat acoustic the phrasing RN waxed lyrical about was too heavily compromised. The Dvorak more than made up for such relative deficiencies, however.

One for the sonics experts....

On my DAB , on my new system,the sound was a real mess.
Indistinct, lack of definition, a real dogs breakfast..

On reflection, Perhaps I need a woofer.....

[Lento]

re the outer movements of the Beethoven. At the tempi adopted for that acoustic, the phrasing RN waxed lyrical about was too heavily compromised. The Dvorak more than made up for such relative deficiencies, however.

That's what I thought, though I did wonder initially if I was simply unaccustomed to such a fast tempo.

[Sir Velo]

As a fellow forumite once said, the score is just the recipe.

So that's why the French call the conductor le chef (d'orchestre)?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So that's why the French call the conductor [I]le chef[/] (d'orchestre)

[Blotto]

How else does one criticize a performance other than by reference to how it reproduces what is written in the score?

I appreciate it is a simplistic question but isn't the primary means of judging a performance's success not its conformity but its sound?

[Bryn]

I appreciate it is a simplistic question but isn't the primary means of judging a performance's success not its conformity but its sound?

I am by no means i the habit of quoting the Little Liver Pills man but you question did rather put me in mind of his "the British may not like music, but they absolutely love the noise it makes".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I appreciate it is a simplistic question but isn't the primary means of judging a performance's success not its conformity but its sound?

No.

[Flosshilde]

As a fellow forumite once said, the score is just the recipe.

Just the recipe? Some recipes (for sponge cakes, for example) have to be followed absolutely; deviate from it & you get an inedible mess. Others do allow for deviation - increase some ingredients, decrease others, add something not in the original recipe, but then you get a dish that isn't quite what the original creator intended.

[Blotto]

No.

No?

[gradus]

Weren't they Carter's Little Liver Pills. Tangential or what!