Prom 62 - 3.09.14: Stuttgart RSO, Norrington

[bluestateprommer]

Doubtlessly the applause following the slow movement was encouraged by the attention-seeking conductor.

It's far from the first time. Norrington did the same earlier this year at Carnegie Hall with a performance of LvB's Missa solemnis:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/arts/music/orchestra-of-st-lukes-at-carnegie-hall.html

".....Mr. Norrington has always had a quirky streak, and the real problems came when, for whatever reason, he turned playful. After the Kyrie, he made a show of watching latecomers being seated, mugging and drawing laughter from performers and audience alike. Then, at the end of the Gloria, he immediately wheeled on the audience members, facing them with a manic grin, as if to say, 'Did you hear what I just did?' Again, he drew laughter.

Granted, this was no church performance. But these antics undercut the texts' meanings, which, as Steven Ledbetter wrote in his program note, Beethoven was concerned to express 'as directly as he knew how.'"

There are places in classical music where laughter is appropriate. Beethoven's Missa solemnis is not one of them. Of course, the audience going along with Sir Roger there didn't help.

[Lento]

Beethoven 8th seemed just too severe and expressionless, especially in the outer movements.

The first mvt felt to me rather "straitjacketed" by tempo rigidity, so bluestateprommer's Taruskin quote (11) an interesting read.

[Bryn]

It's far from the first time. Norrington did the same earlier this year at Carnegie Hall with a performance of LvB's Missa solemnis:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/arts/music/orchestra-of-st-lukes-at-carnegie-hall.html

There are places in classical music where laughter is appropriate. Beethoven's Missa solemnis is not one of them. Of course, the audience going along with Sir Roger there didn't help.

But the Gloria is full of joy and good humour. Beethoven was no great fan of organised religion. The Missa Solemnis, written to celebrate Rudolph's archbishopric, has a dedication which is not essentially religious, but of human friendship, "Von Herzen—Möge es wieder—Zu Herzen gehn!".

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think it's fairly predictable.

Just because it's predictable, doesn't mean it's any the less valid. Or true.

[Flosshilde]

Doubtlessly the applause following the slow movement was encouraged by the attention-seeking conductor.

Oh do give it a rest - we know you don't like him, you don't have to keep going on about it. People might think you're a bit obsessed by him.

[Nick Armstrong]

Fine post concert endorsement from sir Jonathan Swain.

Likewise AMcG in t'twittersphere:

Andrew McGregor @andrewCDmcg
That's going to be on a few 'Prom of the Season' lists! Norrington/Stuttgart @bbcproms fab, folk-inflected Dvorak New World

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oh do give it a rest - we know you don't like him, you don't have to keep going on about it. People might think you're a bit obsessed by him.

As long as Norrington continues his hype and his antics, I will put forward an alternative viewpoint. I don't dislike him personally.

[Flosshilde]

But you're not putting forward an alternative viewpoint. At least, I don't think that saying he's predictable, encouraging applause between movements, etc etc is putting forward an alternative viewpoint.

[Petrushka]

No-one has mentioned the Berlioz yet. For me this was the best part of the evening and it's a great pity that the orchestral movements from Romeo and Juliet are not performed more often. Anyway, 'Romeo Alone' was played with both tenderness and tremendous gusto as required.

The Beethoven 8 seemed too fast and my attention wandered too often in the Dvorak, a sure sign of boredom.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But you're not putting forward an alternative viewpoint. At least, I don't think that saying he's predictable, encouraging applause between movements, etc etc is putting forward an alternative viewpoint.

OK. His arguments are based on the flimsiest of evidence. To justify his vibrato-bashing, he quoted three sources - the usual three. These are the ones he brings out every time. He quotes Leopold Mozart condemning continuous vibrato, as though that means it didn't happen. The very fact that Herr Mozart Snr. made it such an issue can more reasonably be used as evidence that the practice was widespread enough for him to be concerned. But no, RN uses it to suggest that his most famous pupil would have gone along with LM's view and would have "expected" his music to be played in a certain way.
In fact, there is much evidence that Mozart and his father disagreed about quite a few things. I disagreed with my father about things. My children disagree with me. Children are not clones of their parents (Dolly the sheep being a notable exception).
RN then quoted some figures about the size of Mozart's orchestra using a particular example, yet had he chosen a different example (the Paris Symphony) it would have painted a different picture. We can all uses random examples to back up our arguments, but these can never be true evidence. Yet RN seems to get away with it, as he does when he says Mahler would never have heard his works played with vibrato.

Conversely, I admit his Nemesis, the critic David Hurwitz, also uses selective evidence. He quotes a work by Rossini with the word "vibrato" on the string parts, which he claims to be conclusive that vibrato was used. Really it shows that the players may well not have played with vibrato had the indication not been there.

[David-G]

He quotes Leopold Mozart condemning continuous vibrato, as though that means it didn't happen. The very fact that Herr Mozart Snr. made it such an issue can more reasonably be used as evidence that the practice was widespread enough for him to be concerned. But no, RN uses it to suggest that his most famous pupil would have gone along with LM's view and would have "expected" his music to be played in a certain way.
In fact, there is much evidence that Mozart and his father disagreed about quite a few things. I disagreed with my father about things. My children disagree with me. Children are not clones of their parents

The argument would appear to be that because Mozart and his father disagreed about a number of things, the issue of vibrato might well have been another such thing, and that Mozart therefore might well have been in favour of vibrato. I do not find this argument convincing in the slightest. The opposite might equally well have been the case.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wasn't arguing that at all. I was merely pointing out the unreliability of RN's evidence.

[Alison]

Why not just decide whether or not you like vibrato

- then go with performances to match ? Easy.

[Ravensbourne]

The applause following each movement

Oh do give it a rest - we know you don't like him, you don't have to keep going on about it. People might think you're a bit obsessed by him.

It is true, however. The applause following each movement was encouraged by the conductor. I wouldn't normally have applauded, but it was evidently what Norrington had in mind, so why not?

The cor anglais player even got to take a bow after the slow movement of the Dvořák.

[jayne lee wilson]

Not much actual listening to the performances going on here, is there?

In the spirit of things, anyway - it's not the applause that bothered me during the Beethoven tonight, it was wondering what they were giggling at...
RN mugging away again I guess?