Prom 56 - 28.08.14: LPO, Toradze / Jurowski

[Simon B]

Worth going for the Scriabin, if nothing else. I shouldn't think anyone has put as much effort into implementing the colour organ for a long time, if ever. Finally a legitimate use for the multifunction laser display (TM) plus pretty much all the lighting rig available in the RAH.

I can't help wishing Jurowski had given in to the temptation to unleash a bit more of an almighty racket now and then - a few more doses of the massive wall of sound we got on the last chord wouldn't have hurt.

I have to agree that The Planets was just too severe and brisk - and I was expecting it up to a point. Such is VJ's way up to a point in most things.

Audience sabotage was set to max too - I don't especially mean the applause between every section of everything. Not going there on the whole - life is too short. Having said that, it does seem asinine in its insensitivity between the last two planets to me, but there it is.

From where I was sitting (looking across the orchestra toward him) my interpretation would be that he was doing his damndest to stop it, but gave up after a few movements. You can only raise your hands to the sky in a "stop!" gesture so many times.

If you think this only happens at the Proms you can't have been to many performances of the planets elsewhere recently. Davis/BBCPO/Manchester - same. LPO/Alsop/RFH - same. Etc.

In this sense there isn't -a- Proms audience per se. Depends what's on, who's performing etc.

[Dave2002]

Given that all the Proms have an announcement about telephones and photography (usually ignored by those with smartphones) you might think it could just be worth a try mentioning the clapping.

[pastoralguy]

We're just back from hearing the Concertgebouw under Jansons and there appeared to be a big crew in from some Embassy or another. They started clamping at the denouement of 'Till Eulenspiegel' not realising that there's a coda! Clearly, someone should have briefed them on concert etiquette! (ie, if in doubt, don't clap until everyone else does!)

I suspect the hospitality budget had been punished, somewhat...

Fantastic concert, though.

[Ferretfancy]

What a disappointing Planets! Taken way too quickly, and the audience felt it necessary to applaud between EVERY movement.
Seriously, the Proms audience get so much praise from artists and all, and yet they're the only audience at serious concerts who applaud in the wrong places. And before anyone says anything, not knowing the music is not an excuse anymore. You have the Internet right here. DO YOUR RESEARCH!!!

The sea lions were certainly out in force tonight, barking in all the gaps when they weren't applauding. It takes a truly perverse imagination to applaud after every movement of Schoenberg's Five Orchestral Pieces, but the audience in the expensive seats managed it. The Arena Prommers knew better.

[Petrushka]

The blame for the modern trend of inter-movement applause lies fairly and squarely on Sir Roger Norrington. During the 1980s he not only requested it, he demanded it and it has now reached the point where people are applauding between movements of the Schoenberg 5 Pieces, something that not even SRN could have anticipated and which is asinine in the extreme.

Apologies in advance for upsetting Bryn but there is no doubt in my mind that it is so.

[Bryn]

The blame for the modern trend of inter-movement applause lies fairly and squarely on Sir Roger Norrington. During the 1980s he not only requested it, he demanded it and it has now reached the point where people are applauding between movements of the Schoenberg 5 Pieces, something that not even SRN could have anticipated and which is asinine in the extreme.

Apologies in advance for upsetting Bryn but there is no doubt in my mind that it is so.

Don't be so very silly. I can clearly record such applause at concerts in the '60s and '70s. I didn't attend that many in the '50s, so can't comment re. that decade.

As I mentioned earlier, I personally tend to go along with the modern fashion for restraint (including at the end if disappointed with the performance).

[Simon B]

The sea lions were certainly out in force tonight, barking in all the gaps when they weren't applauding. It takes a truly perverse imagination to applaud after every movement of Schoenberg's Five Orchestral Pieces, but the audience in the expensive seats managed it. The Arena Prommers knew better.

FF - you get (justifiably) annoyed when people use the (undefined, in any case) term "prommers" to refer to arena and gallery dwellers as though they are a single homogeneous mass, which constitute the entire audience, so...

Similarly, *some* seat dwellers were (whatever you think of it) members of the serialist (surrealist?) sealion set this evening - not including me or a lot of those around me who were clearly p'd off with it. At the same time, I could clearly see -lots- of those in the back 3rd of the arena were also flapping away.

If 1) The Planets, 2) The Lark Dissembling 3) The Bruch's Not-*Again* concerto 4) Others Various are on the programme, this is what happens every time in my observation.

There's no such thing as *the* Proms audience per-se. Several subsets may be present at numerous events, but it's the rest that determine the outcome.

Is it predictable that this sort of thing never happens when e.g. great uncle Bernie Heatsink is waving the stick? Yes, I'd put money on it. You've got a hall full of cognoscenti (again, whatever you think of that, good or bad) there to hear something "serious" who know the form. Hardly anyone else gets in.

NB, any failure to convey a jocular tone is just that - a failure. All intended in good humour!

[Barbirollians]

The blame for the modern trend of inter-movement applause lies fairly and squarely on Sir Roger Norrington. During the 1980s he not only requested it, he demanded it and it has now reached the point where people are applauding between movements of the Schoenberg 5 Pieces, something that not even SRN could have anticipated and which is asinine in the extreme.

Apologies in advance for upsetting Bryn but there is no doubt in my mind that it is so.

I am far from sure that Sr Rog is to blame as most of those engaging in it now know no better let alone have heard of Sir Rog .

The tiny minority who think it is a HIPP thing to do are just selfish .

It does not happen outside the Proms in my experience - I have been to many a concert in Birmingham , Manchester , Leeds , Snape , London and Sheffield over the last few years and have never heard it

[Dave2002]

We're just back from hearing the Concertgebouw under Jansons and there appeared to be a big crew in from some Embassy or another. They started clamping at the denouement of 'Till Eulenspiegel' not realising that there's a coda! Clearly, someone should have briefed them on concert etiquette! (ie, if in doubt, don't clap until everyone else does!)

I suspect the hospitality budget had been punished, somewhat...

Fantastic concert, though.

Was that with Kavakos in Brahms?

The Prom tonight was also fantastic, though perhaps in a different way. The coloured effects in the Scriabin piece were quite weird, but by the end I was almost beginning to enjoy them. Trouble was it took me a long while to get into it - by the end I thought I could have started listening and watching it all over again. Very impressive end.

The Holst in the first half was good, and there were fairly obvious touches from the organ in several of the movements. When I used to listen to this piece on LPs I was completely unaware that there was a part for organ, until I bought one LP which has a very obvious organ glissando in Uranus. Oddly that part was not so obvious tonight in the live performance, but there were a few other occasions where the hall shook as the organ joined in. Organs don't come much more powerful than the one in the RAH - but at least it didn't completely drown everything tonight, as it did in the Saint-Saëns symphony weeks ago.

[pastoralguy]

Was that with Kavakos in Brahms?

The Prom tonight was also fantastic, though perhaps in a different way. The coloured effects in the Scriabin piece were quite weird, but by the end I was almost beginning to enjoy them. Trouble was it took me a long while to get into it - by the end I thought I could have started listening and watching it all over again. Very impressive end.

The Holst in the first half was good, and there were fairly obvious touches from the organ in several of the movements. When I used to listen to this piece on LPs I was completely unaware that there was a part for organ, until I bought one LP which has a very obvious organ glissando in Uranus. Oddly that part was not so obvious tonight in the live performance, but there were a few other occasions where the hall shook as the organ joined in. Organs don't come much more powerful than the one in the RAH - but at least it didn't completely drown everything tonight, as it did in the Saint-Saëns symphony weeks ago.

Nah. Kavakos in Wolfgang Rihm! 'Lichtes Spiel'. Interesting piece buy lukewarm reception. Ah well.

I met him afterwards and expressed the opinion that he played it much more gently and thoughtfully than Ann-Sophie Mutter on her recording. He looked bewildered but, eventually, pleased...

[Barbirollians]

Nah. Kavakos in Wolfgang Rihm! 'Lichtes Spiel'. Interesting piece buy lukewarm reception. Ah well.

I met him afterwards and expressed the opinion that he played it much more gently and thoughtfully than Ann-Sophie Mutter on her recording. He looked bewildered but, eventually, pleased...

How interesting - I love that recording - ASM sounds in top form to my ears .

[pastoralguy]

How interesting - I love that recording - ASM sounds in top form to my ears .

Yes, I've played it many times in preparation for tonite's concert and have enjoyed it. However, it was nice to hear another perspective this evening.

[Richard J.]

I don't think I've ever heard a performance of The Planets where applause happened after every movement, and I've heard it many times over the last 50 years or so. At the 2009 Proms, Mackerras conducted the BBC Philharmonic in a performance which is on YouTube. I've just listened to his gripping account of Mars, and there's not a hint of any applause at the end of the movement. So why did it happen tonight?

I was surprised that it happened in a concert including Schoenberg and Scriabin, and I expected that the ignorant horde would leave at the interval (but evidently they didn't).

I was disappointed in Jurowski's Planets. Mars was rushed through, which reduced its impact, as though it was a boisterous presto scherzo rather than a depiction of war. (Incidentally Mars took 6:22 tonight, compared with 7:13 under Mackerras.) Jupiter was also rather too fast to enable the music to breathe, and it seemed to me that Jurowski was concentrating on highlighting instrumental colours at the expense of the overall structure and the building of climaxes.

[Ferretfancy]

FF - you get (justifiably) annoyed when people use the (undefined, in any case) term "prommers" to refer to arena and gallery dwellers as though they are a single homogeneous mass, which constitute the entire audience, so...

Similarly, *some* seat dwellers were (whatever you think of it) members of the serialist (surrealist?) sealion set this evening - not including me or a lot of those around me who were clearly p'd off with it. At the same time, I could clearly see -lots- of those in the back 3rd of the arena were also flapping away.

If 1) The Planets, 2) The Lark Dissembling 3) The Bruch's Not-*Again* concerto 4) Others Various are on the programme, this is what happens every time in my observation.

There's no such thing as *the* Proms audience per-se. Several subsets may be present at numerous events, but it's the rest that determine the outcome.

Is it predictable that this sort of thing never happens when e.g. great uncle Bernie Heatsink is waving the stick? Yes, I'd put money on it. You've got a hall full of cognoscenti (again, whatever you think of that, good or bad) there to hear something "serious" who know the form. Hardly anyone else gets in.

NB, any failure to convey a jocular tone is just that - a failure. All intended in good humour!

That's what was curious last night. You would have thought that Schoenberg and Scriabin would have attracted a more thoughtful audience. On the way home I spoke to a man and his wife for whom this was the second performance of the Scriabin that they had heard this year, and they were just as baffled by the applause as I was.
What I do notice is that whereas the people in the Arena, and presumably the Gallery, discuss the music with enthusiasm before the concert, at the interval, and after the concert, many of those in the better seats do not. As soon as they are out of the building they are discussing cousin Edie's wedding or whatever. It's as if the concert was sorted and real life could begin.
Personally, I'm with Sir Thomas -" The English don't like music, but they like the noise it makes "

Good humour appreciated.

[teamsaint]

That's what was curious last night. You would have thought that Schoenberg and Scriabin would have attracted a more thoughtful audience. On the way home I spoke to a man and his wife for whom this was the second performance of the Scriabin that they had heard this year, and they were just as baffled by the applause as I was.
What I do notice is that whereas the people in the Arena, and presumably the Gallery, discuss the music with enthusiasm before the concert, at the interval, and after the concert, many of those in the better seats do not. As soon as they are out of the building they are discussing cousin Edie's wedding or whatever. It's as if the concert was sorted and real life could begin.
Personally, I'm with Sir Thomas -" The English don't like music, but they like the noise it makes "

Good humour appreciated.

Discussions with peopleone didn't previously know one of the great pleasures of the Proms, FF.

( Is Lord Rattle REALLY going to build a new concert hall in east London ?!)