Prom 53 - 26.08.14: 'Brahms Night', Budapest Festival Orchestra / I. Fischer

[Petrushka]

Yes, that's how it came across on the radio, exactly.

Wonder what the encore was...

I think Ivan Fischer announced it as Brahms Abendständchen.

[teamsaint]

I think Ivan Fischer announced it as Brahms Abendständchen.

it was indeed.

and available on the endlessly rewarding Chamber Choir of Europe Nicol Matt 6 CD set.

anybody know yet what the delay was all about?

More thoughts on the music. I thought the 4 was the better part of the concert overall. Fischer really gave it everything in the 3rd movement especially, pulling the tempo around as far as it would go, and allowing a full range of expressive playing. Best movement of the evening, for my money, but not let down by the finale, which had more than enough of the requisite drama and foreboding that I always see in it. Nice trombone work too, to emphasise the glimpses back to the past.

First time seeing both the band and conductor. Seems to me that the evident refined playing comes very directly from Fischer, whose own style is exactly that.....refined, restrained , stylish.

Well,when viewed over 10 rows of heads in the arena at least !!

Thoughts on the 3rd Symphony a little harder to formulate. Somehow almost too restrained and teetering on the polite in the first movement perhaps. But some beautiful woodwind playing as Caliban mentioned, and an enjoyable account in any event.

In the hall , from the arena the sound felt a little dead and subdued at times, especially early on. Down to a humid evening and a big turn out dampening the sound maybe? seemed to improve as the evening went on though, perhaps they just gave it more welly in the second half?!

anybody else there tonight?

[jayne lee wilson]

PROM 53. BRAHMS SYMPHONY NO.3; NO.4. BUDAPEST FO/FISCHER.

HDs Ratings Part One (Brahms Symphony No.3): Sound 10/10, Performance 8/10.

The initial impression of the Allegro con brio was one of weightiness, with very moderate tempi, clear woodwind but smooth, warmly blended string textures. The repeat was taken (A Good Thing) but not used for any expressive enhancement. Was this all a bit too safe? Into the development there was no obvious tempo change leaving an uneventful impression, and the pace remained steady throughout a rather massive, stately non-con-brio account of this movement. Another problem with this approach was a lack of contrast (in both mood & tempi) with the andante and poco allegretto, neither as dreamily absent from the world or as rhapsodic as they might be. The finale did discover some real urgency, bite and drama at its climactic height. But as relayed via HDs at least, the coda seemed too loudly figurative, lacking its impressionistic shimmerings.
Overall: a slightly odd sense of "three preludes and a finale".

HDs Ratings Part 2 (BRAHMS Symphony No.4): Sound 9/10, Performance 8/10.

A steady start again to a big-boned, sweepingly Romantic reading here. But greater urgency & considerable momentum building up into the coda whose conclusion had considerable impact. The tempi were nicely judged in the andante (despite some over-deliberate phrasing), with the faster section reaching a passionate and rhythmically incisive climax. Buoyant, lighter and truly scherzo-ish giocoso (it's not a finale after all).
The finale was very steadily paced (12th variation with the flute solo almost at a standstill) and slightly marred by more mannered, agogic phrases, but at least the final chord was not unnaturally prolonged.

Overall: Very well played readings of their grandly Romantic type - a big sound for a big space, and Fischer and his orchestra seemed to achieve their own aims. But often too massive, steady and predictable for my taste. I prefer a Brahms style with greater emotional volatility, lighter orchestral textures and more rhythmical lilt & lift.

[antongould]

it was indeed.

and available on the endlessly rewarding Chamber Choir of Europe Nicol Matt 6 CD set.

anybody know yet what the delay was all about?

More thoughts on the music. I thought the 4 was the better part of the concert overall. Fischer really gave it everything in the 3rd movement especially, pulling the tempo around as far as it would go, and allowing a full range of expressive playing. Best movement of the evening, for my money, but not let down by the finale, which had more than enough of the requisite drama and foreboding that I always see in it. Nice trombone work too, to emphasise the glimpses back to the past.

First time seeing both the band and conductor. Seems to me that the evident refined playing comes very directly from Fischer, whose own style is exactly that.....refined, restrained , stylish.

Well,when viewed over 10 rows of heads in the arena at least !!

Thoughts on the 3rd Symphony a little harder to formulate. Somehow almost too restrained and teetering on the polite in the first movement perhaps. But some beautiful woodwind playing as Caliban mentioned, and an enjoyable account in any event.

In the hall , from the arena the sound felt a little dead and subdued at times, especially early on. Down to a humid evening and a big turn out dampening the sound maybe? seemed to improve as the evening went on though, perhaps they just gave it more welly in the second half?!

anybody else there tonight?

Excellent reviews ts - glad you enjoyed it. The encore was, to me at least, totally unexpected yet wonderful. The set is indeed endlessly rewarding listened to the encore and its mates on the way to work this morning....all wonderful. Then at work last night's Late Prom .....magnificent.

[Ferretfancy]

it was indeed.

and available on the endlessly rewarding Chamber Choir of Europe Nicol Matt 6 CD set.

anybody know yet what the delay was all about?

More thoughts on the music. I thought the 4 was the better part of the concert overall. Fischer really gave it everything in the 3rd movement especially, pulling the tempo around as far as it would go, and allowing a full range of expressive playing. Best movement of the evening, for my money, but not let down by the finale, which had more than enough of the requisite drama and foreboding that I always see in it. Nice trombone work too, to emphasise the glimpses back to the past.

First time seeing both the band and conductor. Seems to me that the evident refined playing comes very directly from Fischer, whose own style is exactly that.....refined, restrained , stylish.

Well,when viewed over 10 rows of heads in the arena at least !!

Thoughts on the 3rd Symphony a little harder to formulate. Somehow almost too restrained and teetering on the polite in the first movement perhaps. But some beautiful woodwind playing as Caliban mentioned, and an enjoyable account in any event.

In the hall , from the arena the sound felt a little dead and subdued at times, especially early on. Down to a humid evening and a big turn out dampening the sound maybe? seemed to improve as the evening went on though, perhaps they just gave it more welly in the second half?!

anybody else there tonight?

Yes, I was there, standing not far from you, I think. I agree that the sound in the Arena was a little less incisive than the night before. Factors such as the number of bodies in the building, temperature, humidity etc. affect what we hear. I enjoyed both performances, particularly No. 4. once I got used to the rather leisurely style, particularly in No. 3. Like you, I would have liked a somewhat brisker, leaner interpretation with a bit more bite, but that said, the playing was very seductive, it's a superb orchestra.

[David Underdown]

The delay was apparently due to Fischer feeling unwell according to tweets from the BBC Proms account:

http://twitter.com/bbcproms/statuses/504356805116723200

http://twitter.com/bbcproms/status/504356805116723200

[underthecountertenor]

The delay was apparently due to Fischer feeling unwell according to tweets from the BBC Proms account:

http://twitter.com/bbcproms/statuses/504356805116723200

http://twitter.com/bbcproms/status/504356805116723200

Yes, I'd heard that last night, but didn't want to go public on it until it was officially confirmed, which I guess it has been by the above. Makes the performance of 4 all the more remarkable. And the encore was so unexpected, and touching, that it had me in quite a state. Needed a beer before the (glorious) Missa Solemnis. My first, and perhaps only, double prom of the season, and I picked a good 'un.

[BBMmk2]

I must say, from the way the Budapest players were performing ,you wouldn't think that Mr Fischer was feeling unwell. Probably due to the heat of the RAH?

[amac4165]

That is a bit old – actually it was fairly cool in there all evening.

Overall a very good from however, I would have preferred something a bit different in the first half. Pairing up the two symphonies did make it rather heavy concert. Personally, I thought the 4th slightly better. However, this is probably due to the fact that I prefer the fourth and have not really got to grips with the third as yet

[Richard J.]

The delay was apparently due to Fischer feeling unwell according to tweets from the BBC Proms account:

http://twitter.com/bbcproms/statuses/504356805116723200

http://twitter.com/bbcproms/status/504356805116723200

There's a rather different story in The Times today (in the 'TMS' diary on page 11) under the headline "HALF-TIME DUST-UP":

“Unforeseen circumstances” led to an extended interval at the Proms on Tuesday. The actual reason, I’m told, was a huffy Hungarian. When the Budapest Festival Orchestra took longer than expected over Brahms’s third symphony, the organisers asked Ivan Fischer, the conductor, if he could minimise the applause at the end and scrap his encores since they needed time to empty the Albert Hall and bring in a second full house for a late-night Missa solemnis. Fischer refused. No encore, no second half. The organisers had to back down and Fischer duly milked the adoration. If only they had stuck to the draft schedule, which had the concert beginning half an hour earlier.

[teamsaint]

There's a rather different story in The Times today (in the 'TMS' diary on page 11) under the headline "HALF-TIME DUST-UP":

“Unforeseen circumstances” led to an extended interval at the Proms on Tuesday. The actual reason, I’m told, was a huffy Hungarian. When the Budapest Festival Orchestra took longer than expected over Brahms’s third symphony, the organisers asked Ivan Fischer, the conductor, if he could minimise the applause at the end and scrap his encores since they needed time to empty the Albert Hall and bring in a second full house for a late-night Missa solemnis. Fischer refused. No encore, no second half. The organisers had to back down and Fischer duly milked the adoration. If only they had stuck to the draft schedule, which had the concert beginning half an hour earlier.

that may be the case.
Either way, front of house was a bit of a shambles on Tuesday night. Poor queue management/understanding of rules by stewards, (along with very little info being given out), relentless requests for arena Prommers to move forward, (in rather brusque language) to move forward into uncomfortably tight spaces, too few staff in arena bars .

Sorry to whinge, but early starts and the longer and longer gap between early and late proms that the organisers seem to need, really aren't that customer focused, IMO.

I presume the Times is suggesting that originally a 6.30 start was scheduled. the early starts are really very unhelpful for most working people.
I wonder in any case how much longer Brahms 3 was than usual? 5 minutes tops. And the applause was cursory, given that there was no soloist. In fact, I now recall looking at my phone as I turned it on during the interval, and it showed 7.45.


EDIT: as for the "duly milked the adoration" quote, I would say that the response from Fischer at the end of the second half was just about par for the course. The audience gave a very warm reception at the end of the 4 th symphony, but there was no undue "milking" IMO.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Sorry to whinge, but early starts and the longer and longer gap between early and late proms that the organisers seem to need, really aren't that customer focused, IMO.

Aaahh! That's why they changed it to "the BBC Proms"!

[Petrushka]

There's a rather different story in The Times today (in the 'TMS' diary on page 11) under the headline "HALF-TIME DUST-UP":

“Unforeseen circumstances” led to an extended interval at the Proms on Tuesday. The actual reason, I’m told, was a huffy Hungarian. When the Budapest Festival Orchestra took longer than expected over Brahms’s third symphony, the organisers asked Ivan Fischer, the conductor, if he could minimise the applause at the end and scrap his encores since they needed time to empty the Albert Hall and bring in a second full house for a late-night Missa solemnis. Fischer refused. No encore, no second half. The organisers had to back down and Fischer duly milked the adoration. If only they had stuck to the draft schedule, which had the concert beginning half an hour earlier.

If this is true then good for him. The RAH have never had problems with 7pm starts and a second Prom before so why do they need longer now? These 6.30 starts, particularly on a weekday, are ludicrous. As regards the stewards, they all look like 16 year olds nowadays walking around in high-vis jackets trying to look important. No doubt all the old hands have retired. To be honest, there are too many late night Proms anyway and it needs a bit of a cull.

[jayne lee wilson]

There's a rather different story in The Times today (in the 'TMS' diary on page 11) under the headline "HALF-TIME DUST-UP":

“Unforeseen circumstances” led to an extended interval at the Proms on Tuesday. The actual reason, I’m told, was a huffy Hungarian. When the Budapest Festival Orchestra took longer than expected over Brahms’s third symphony, the organisers asked Ivan Fischer, the conductor, if he could minimise the applause at the end and scrap his encores since they needed time to empty the Albert Hall and bring in a second full house for a late-night Missa solemnis. Fischer refused. No encore, no second half. The organisers had to back down and Fischer duly milked the adoration. If only they had stuck to the draft schedule, which had the concert beginning half an hour earlier.

Talk about the gift that keeps on giving... a season marred by poorly-structured & overfamiliar programming, bad planning (Brahms 3/4 and Missa on the same night?), terribly weak new music selections (hon. exceptions - Simon Holt, Brett Dean, Unsuk Chin)...

Yes, well done Maestro Fischer! How I wonder, does one minimise the applause at the end of Brahms' 4th? Fluff the last chord perhaps, or artificially prolong it (some maestros need no encouragement there..), or rush from the stage after a curt, unsmiling bow...

[pastoralguy]

Aaahh! That's why they changed it to "the BBC Proms"!