Prom 47 - 21.08.14: War Requiem, CBSO, Gritton / Spence / Müller-Brachmann / Nelsons

[VodkaDilc]

I had intended to time the silence at the end later today - it seemed even longer.

I was also struck by the slow Dies Irae, much slower than Britten took it, I'm sure. I also wondered about the transfer from chamber organ to the RAH monster for a short climactic passage. I can't remember that in previous performances - I'll have to check whether it's authorised in the score.

I'd like to know how the dynamics worked on the radio. Those extreme pianissimos were surely inaudible without turning up the volume on some radios - tremendously moving in the actual performance though.

[Mary Chambers]

Looking at the names of the members of the Children's Choir, I would guess that there were about 12 boys out of a choir of 55. (Names like Alex make it difficult to be accurate.) In the hall the impression was nothing like the boys' sound which Britten presumably wanted, but I suppose the CBSO has a mixed choir and needs to give it opportunities like this. From my seat they were not distant enough, but I was in the Circle, not far from the singers.

There is no excuse for disregarding the score, however much they need opportunities for the children's chorus. Boys' choirs aren't extinct....yet. They will be if people continue to think a mixed choir is a fair substitute in a work such as this. (They didn't sound distant enough on the radio either.)

I was very impressed by Hanno Müller-Brachmann. He sang superbly and with a deep understanding. Toby Spence was in good voice, but I don't think he really came into his own until towards the end. On the radio, the two voices didn't seem to blend at all for the magical 'angel out of heaven' moment. It's always difficult to judge how much is the result of the way the radio sound is handled.

The silence at the end seemed very long indeed. Was it organised beforehand, or did it just happen? I'd be interested to know how it was achieved.

I've just seen the two previous posts. Yes, some pianissimos were almost inaudible on the radio. The orchestra seemed to dominate throughout the evening - the balance didn't sound quite right to me.

[VodkaDilc]

The silence at the end seemed very long indeed. Was it organised beforehand, or did it just happen? I'd be interested to know how it was achieved.

As far as I could see, it was a matter of Nelsons keeping absolutely immobile, with hands still raised. I'm sure he sensed that he could extend the silence in that way - and the audience waited for him to move. At the end he moved very slightly and someone near the back began the applause. I can't see how it could have been organised. It was just a very spontaneous response to a wonderful performance.

[Nick Armstrong]

The silence at the end seemed very long indeed.

The silence at the end of Oramo's Job was similarly protracted (repeat this afternoon, 2 - 4pm)... or seemed so - the conductor seemed to be able to dictate its length by body language and I suspect Nelsons did the same.

[Cross posted to similar effect with Vods]

Must try and hear this concert...

[Pabmusic]

…[Silence] Was it organised beforehand, or did it just happen? I'd be interested to know how it was achieved...

The easiest way to achieve this is to keep the stick suspended in mid-air. Generally, people won't applaud before the players are 'at rest'.

[VodkaDilc]

The easiest way to achieve this is to keep the stick suspended in mid-air. Generally, people won't applaud before the players are 'at rest'.

But in an audience of this size, there's always the chance of some insensitive soul or infrequent concert-goer letting his or her enthusiasm take over. The remarkable thing last night was that even those people were kept silent. Perhaps it's a work which attracts a more dedicated audience, leaving those who just fancy "the Prom experience" to go on other nights.

[Pabmusic]

But in an audience of this size, there's always the chance of some insensitive soul or infrequent concert-goer letting his or her enthusiasm take over. The remarkable thing last night was that even those people were kept silent. Perhaps it's a work which attracts a more dedicated audience, leaving those who just fancy "the Prom experience" to go on other nights.

Yes, quite agree. It happened last Sunday too (at 'my' Prom).

[Nick Armstrong]

It happened last Sunday too (at 'my' Prom).

So it did! As we shall see (and hear) in High Definition on BBC4 TV this evening!

[David Underdown]

I hope they have boys for the boys' choir, and not teenage girls as in the 50th anniversary performance. That annoyed me, and it's happening more and more. So wrong. The boys are a sort of parallel to the tenor and baritone soloists who sing the Owen poems.

As discussed elsewhere, they were a (mixed) children's choir. Of course boys' choirs are not extinct, but at this age the sound is more determined by how they are trained, rather than whether it's boys or girls. Perhaps also worth considering that men and women serve on (almost) equal terms in the armed forces, the overall parallels we might wish to draw are perhaps slightly different to when Britten composed the work?

Overall I think I was perhaps expecting too much last night, and the performance didn't quite come up to it (I was more moved by last Sunday's Prom). It was the exact centenary of the first British combat deaths of the war, oddly the programme made no mention of this (my mood was possibly also slightly affected by someone trying to push in a few minutes before the concert started, and a poor night's sleep).

It was affecting to see the young tenors and basses in the choir, but overall there perhaps just weren't quite enough singers - the upper choir seats were not used, and possibly just a sprinkling of more mature voices would have added a bit of heft to the choral sound.

The silence at the end was rather remarkable at the end. Part of me got to the point of wishing there would be no applause at all, and everyone would just drift out in silence. The audience actually seemed a fairly mixed bag, with quite a high proportion appearing to be friends and family of the singers. The promming queues weren't actually as long as I expected on arriving around 17:30, though the Arena was well enough filled by the start of the concert.

[Keraulophone]

A great Prom performance of the War Requiem, which came over the radio waves very well on the HiFi via FM... especially that prolonged, pregnant silence at the end.

I was aware that many don't get on with this piece, but I was rather taken aback to read composer Robin Holloway's trenchant opinion:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/arts/3043381/let-down-by-britten/

[Mary Chambers]

As discussed elsewhere, they were a (mixed) children's choir. Of course boys' choirs are not extinct, but at this age the sound is more determined by how they are trained, rather than whether it's boys or girls. Perhaps also worth considering that men and women serve on (almost) equal terms in the armed forces, the overall parallels we might wish to draw are perhaps slightly different to when Britten composed the work?

.

Possibly, but he wrote the work, not us. He wasn't always specific about whether he wanted boys' or girls' or mixed voices, but in this case he was. The piece is more than just the sound. I know there are different points of view on this, but I do feel quite strongly about it.

It didn't quite come up to my expectations either, though the baritone surpassed them. The problem with listening at home is that it's possible to lose concentration, and at times I did.

I'd have thought 268 voices were more than enough! I did feel that because the singers were so young there was perhaps not quite enough contrast between them and the children's choir. I'm glad, though, that the youth choirs had the chance to experience the work.

[Guest]

Boys have a very different 'chest' / almost high tenor voice sound that Britten often exploits at different stages of their 'unbroken' voices, and in Ceremony Of Carols and the Spring Symphony, he writes for that very full-blooded male sound nearer the bottom of the register. Most girls groups I heave heard singing in those regions just sound thinner. I'm absolutely with Mary on this.

[Mary Chambers]

A great Prom performance of the War Requiem, which came over the radio waves very well on the HiFi via FM... especially that prolonged, pregnant silence at the end.

I was aware that many don't get on with this piece, but I was rather taken aback to read composer Robin Holloway's trenchant opinion:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/arts/3043381/let-down-by-britten/

Robin Holloway has never understood Britten. I've heard other hilarious pronouncements from him. Not to be taken seriously.

[amateur51]

Robin Holloway has never understood Britten. I've heard other hilarious pronouncements from him. Not to be taken seriously.

Oh dear! I wonder if Philip Hensher, who tends towards voicing similar opinions about Britten & his music, was hit on the head by some of Holloway's opinions while still young?

I hope that they were tuned last evening & caught the tremendous extended hush at the end of the performance and the overwhelming audience reception thereafter.They must have been terribly cheesed off

[Master Jacques]

I'm grateful to Keraulophone for the link to the Holloway article, which I had not previously seen. Nor can I agree with Mary Chambers that the article shows that Holloway "never understood Britten" - he praises many other Britten works in the course of it - or that it constitutes a "hilarious pronouncement". Quite the reverse. It is upsetting because so much of it is "on the money".

Let me raise my head above the parapet: I feel Holloway speaks for me too in his doubts about the work, and in his praise of the two sections - the Agnus Dei and Lachrymosa - which seem to me to transcend those doubts. I can't speak for others, but I do know that - for good reasons - more than a few people out here share Holloway's reservations about the War Requiem, without necessarily feeling able to express them as he has the courage to do.

For one thing, who wants to spoil the pleasure (if that is the right word here) of others, who do find the work a profound and moving experience? For another, as Holloway says, there is a certain mainstream political correctness at work here, which makes it difficult to express doubts without sounding either callous or provocative.

I am personally convinced that the War Requiem's "effectiveness" and the clever layout of Britten's forces will not guarantee it a place, ultimately, amongst his strongest works, such as Grimes, Budd, Screw and many of the song cycles (notably Winter Words) and chamber pieces. Rather, another century may come to view it rather as we do Stainer's Crucifixion: as an exercise in easy piety, high on "feel good" factors and low on musical substance.

But I have said more than enough, and will now duck beneath that parapet!