Prom 45 - 19.08.14: Laura Mvula, Metropole Orchestra / Buckley

[teamsaint]

I must read that tomorrow - thanks, TS.

"Revenge" was from the Bley-Peacock Synthesiser Show period and what I think of as her (their) Sun Ra-influenced period, which included a second album "Improvisie", then a more rock-orientated "I'm the One". FWIR Han Bennink was normally their drummer, but when the Show performed one gig in this country in about 1971, according to an article Robert Wyatt was on drums and Daryl Runswick, bass. When I asked Daryl about this, he said, "I don't remember that at all".

Never heard of her before tonight.

Having a dabble, (probably jazz sacrilege) but some extraordinary music , by the sound of it.......so thanks to Jazzer and S-A for the tip.

Its amazing how much you can learn when you know nothing in the first place !!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

yep teamsaint i have found knowing nothing a good place to start but sometimes a difficult place to leave

interview with ms Peacock already linked to above - apologies it was the middle of the night and had just finished long skype call with no 1 son

[pureimagination]

So where's your review of the concert then?

I'm not going to review the concert but I'll give my opinion. I suggest anyone that wants to listens to the concert on iplayer and they can make up their own mind (I'm gradually working my way through those proms I didn't attend or listen to when broadcast so i can form an opinion as to which pieces/orchestra etc I enjoyed or didn't). My argument was that artists who aren't generally associated with the classical field deserve a space at the proms (if it's okay for Kiss Me Kate...). Someone in another thread said that the Mvula prom was a waste of a prom and our money [as licence payers] before the concert had taken place.
In my opinion I think Laura Mvula is a very accomplished artist, that the orchestrations of her songs complemented her voice and that I prefer some of the songs with the orchestration rather than the original album version.

[french frank]

My argument was that artists who aren't generally associated with the classical field deserve a space at the proms (if it's okay for Kiss Me Kate...).

That does give a whole new meaning to 'The World's Greatest Classical Music Festival' [sic], doesn't it? I'm not too troubled about a few money-spinners being included (and, yes, that means Kiss Me Kate too) to subsidise the more abstruse classical concerts, but the idea that any of them 'deserve a space' is an unsupported assertion/opinion, not an argument.

The fact that she is 'classically trained' need to be amplified a little as there seemed (to me) little evidence; I took the reference to be an implied 'justification' for her appearance at the Proms, rather than that of any other pop singer-songwriter. Jules Buckley did what he did for the Urban Classic Prom: provided an orchestral backing for the star. The audience seemed to love it, but a) what proportion were regular Proms goers? and b) how many of the audience will become regular Proms-goers (i.e. for the 'classical' concerts)? Or is the beginning and end of it that they sell tickets and they support the cock-eyed argument that they are making the Proms more 'accessible'? (And they'd make them even more accessible if they just dropped the classical music concerts altogether)

[pureimagination]

'Classical music', 'classically trained' etc surely are subjective terms that can be used for and against the argument for what's to be included at the proms. I only became a prom goer since 2007 so we all have to start somewhere. (I'm certainly not a prommer if the attitude is that all proms are just for the regular prom-goers and that you can only be deemed worthy if you can pass the test as to what is good and bad, classical or not). I choose carefully which proms I attend and listen later to those I missed to pick out pieces of music I want to hear again whether they are 'classical' or not. 'Orchestral backing for the star' I hope you're not referring to Pabmusic's contribution - please give Jules Buckley some credit.
Surely we should be encouraging to those who are less familiar with classical music and realise there will be different paths to musical discovery.

[french frank]

'Classical music', 'classically trained' etc surely are subjective terms that can be used for and against the argument for what's to be included at the proms. I only became a prom goer since 2007 so we all have to start somewhere. (I'm certainly not a prommer if the attitude is that all proms are just for the regular prom-goers and that you can only be deemed worthy if you can pass the test as to what is good and bad, classical or not). I choose carefully which proms I attend and listen later to those I missed to pick out pieces of music I want to hear again whether they are 'classical' or not. 'Orchestral backing for the star' I hope you're not referring to Pabmusic's contribution - please give Jules Buckley some credit.
Surely we should be encouraging to those who are less familiar with classical music and realise there will be different paths to musical discovery.

That's reads a lot into the discussion that isn't there: nothing about being 'deemed worthy' of anything: It isn't necessary to think Radio 1, 2 or 6 Music are 'less worthy' than Radio 3 because they don't play much/any classical music. Or that Glastonbury is less worthy than the Proms. But it isn't 'subjective' to say that other stations and other festivals play different kinds of music. Nor is it true that 'classical music' and 'classically trained' are subjective terms which have no factual basis other than a meaning that someone cares to give them. We might encourage 'those who are less familiar with classical music' by exposing them to classical music. The Pet Shop Boys' Prom (so Radio 3 informs us) is the most popular of the online Proms performances. Again, not classical music. People come to hear their favourite popular entertainers. And the BBC Three televised Urban Classic Prom removed both the classical pieces before it was broadcast last year. The idea that introducing pop music into the Proms 'introduces people to classical music' doesn't stand up well to scrutiny. In fact, that was one of the questions I asked in my last post: how many of the people who pack the RAH to hear pop music end up coming back to listen to classical concerts? Because that is where the success of the strategy would lie.

On the whole pop festivals are exclusively pop. I wonder how many Prommers end up going to Glastonbury, T in the Park, Reading, the I-o-W festivals &c because they heard a performer at the Proms? It seems that even a 'wet' like me who will tolerate the inclusion of the odd light or pop concert gets castigated for saying I don't think much of it ...

[Quarky]

Re. Laura's classical training, from an old Guardian article:
When a new singer is billed as "classically trained" it generally means they can play the piano. Mvula – whose music sounds like Amy Winehouse and David Axelrod reworking a score by Gershwin – graduated from the Birmingham Conservatoire with a degree in composition. The 26-year-old is a unique collision of her Caribbean background and formal music training: "My parents encouraged us to commit to things," she says, "so if we wanted to learn an instrument, it was all the grades and all the theory

I prefer to guess that Laura may have a powerful patron, and the proms management bowed to that - a situation very common in the Classical world, I think. I would not think this prom is a Trojan horse precedent for rejigging the proms in terms of pop music.

As stated on another thread, I liked Laura (and Esperanza).

[french frank]

Re. Laura's classical training, from an old Guardian article:
When a new singer is billed as "classically trained" it generally means they can play the piano. Mvula [...] graduated from the Birmingham Conservatoire with a degree in composition.

In other words, not so much 'classically trained' as having had a 'formal musical training'? Nothing to do with 'classical music' as in 'The World's Greatest Classical Music Festival'. If there is a snobbery, it seems to me to be on the non-classical side - imagining there is some special kudos in appearing at the Proms rather than Glastonbury, being on Radio 3 rather than Radio 1 and being 'classically trained' rather than being 'formally trained'.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

a review of the lady in a different and perhaps more suited context

[Serial_Apologist]

a review of the lady in a different and perhaps more suited context

I didn't listen to her Prom, but liked what I heard from clips. I wonder if like me, she heard the bleached one's "Human Nature" through Miles's versions of it.

[peterthekeys]

Someone in another thread said that the Mvula prom was a waste of a prom and our money [as licence payers] before the concert had taken place.

That was me. My view was (and is) that there is a vast amount of classical music which never gets a look-in at the Proms (or anywhere else for that matter) and this should take priority over music which has no problem finding a platform elsewhere. (Given that the Proms is trumpeted as a "classical music festival")

[french frank]

There does seem to be a line of argument that: "It's great, I like it. And why shouldn't it be at the Proms - the Proms are for everyone."

The more interesting question is perhaps: "Why should it be on at the Proms?"

[doversoul1]

That was me. My view was (and is) that there is a vast amount of classical music which never gets a look-in at the Proms (or anywhere else for that matter) and this should take priority over music which has no problem finding a platform elsewhere. (Given that the Proms is trumpeted as a "classical music festival")

As someone who spends a lot of time listening to the music by ‘rarely heard’ composers, I agree with this wholeheartedly. It shouldn’t be confused with (or high jacked by) the question of the value of non-classical musicians and their music.

I thought the Proms were for everyone who wanted to hear classical music.

[Serial_Apologist]

As someone who spends a lot of time listening to the music by ‘rarely heard’ composers, I agree with this wholeheartedly. It shouldn’t be confused with (or high jacked by) the question of the value of non-classical musicians and their music.

I thought the Proms were for everyone who wanted to hear classical music.

It's the oft-mentioned "inverted snobbery", read commercialism, that excludes music from the classical tradition from stations featuring mainly pop music and its derivatives, that is so hypocritical. Were this to be an equal two-way street, everything wouild be fine, by me.

[Boilk]

... but last thing I heard [Peacock] seemed to be involved in a local anti-fracking group in her suburb of New York.

That sounds just like the forthright, healthily cynical Peacock of yesteryear ... would be good if her forthcoming album produced the first decent anti-fracking song. It's worth checking out her vocal contribution on Andrew Poppy's second album Alphabed. I assume Peacock fans will be acquainted with her stellar vocals on Bruford's first album Feels Good To Me.