Prom 42 - 17.08.14: 'Lest We Forget', BBC SSO, Clayton / Williams / Manze

[Ferretfancy]

To quote the RVW3 score's 4th movement instructions: "Soprano or Tenor Solo (Distant)" with the vocal line additionally cued into the clarinet part "to be played by 1st clarinet when there is no vocal soloist." I wonder if anyone remembers Andre Previn doing just that in an RFH performance many years ago, when Jack Brymer played the vocal part on his clarinet, thus saving on the expense of engaging a soprano for a minute or so of music. Incidentally, was the "distant" tenor stationed up in the gallery tonight?

He was stationed in the organ loft, and was too close and too loud in consequence, that's no reflection on the quality of his wordless singing. The highlight for me was the immaculate performance of the Butterworth by Roderick Williams. I have only heard him sing this before with piano accompaniment, but the orchestration was fab Pab!

The Pastoral went very well, if just lacking the last ounce of nuance for me, I think there might have been slightly more sense of 'Magic casements and faerylands forlorn" The first trumpet's important entry quoting the Last Post was uncomfortably flat, or was he trying to suggest a bugle ?

Both the Stephan and Kelly works were haunting, leaving us wondering what might have been. All in all, a very impressive concert which deserved a larger audience.

[Simon B]

Incidentally, was the "distant" tenor stationed up in the gallery tonight?

No, he was in front of the organ console. That and the natural trumpet solo being onstage (what does the score say - I'm going only by the previous Hickox performance I attended) were about the only drawbacks to this RVW Pastoral IMV...

Earlier, this concert re-proved one of my pet theories - anything with Roderick Williams in is likely to be worth attention. What a communicative singer he is, with a perfect noble stage presence for this sort of repertoire that draws the audience in with every word.

Lovely orchestration Pabmusic - the last song in particular. That final tam-tam stroke was lump-in-throat stuff...

[Simon B]

Ferret - the trumpet sounded spot-on to me, except for those notes that are bound to be out when not using any valves (which he wasn't).

RVW specified a natural trumpet or bugle didn't he? Someone here will very likely have a score and correct me if not...

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

Ferret - the trumpet sounded spot-on to me, except for those notes that are bound to be out when not using any valves (which he wasn't).

RVW specified a natural trumpet or bugle didn't he? Someone here will very likely have a score and correct me if not...

The score states: "It is important that this passage be played on a true Eb trumpet (preferably a natural trumpet) so that only natural notes may be played and that the Bb (7th partial) and D (9th partial) should have their true intonation. This can, of course, be also achieved by playing the passage on an F trumpet with the 1st piston depressed. If neither of these courses is possible the passage must of course be played on a Bb or C trumpet and the pistons used in the ordinary way. But this must only be done in case of necessity."

The score doesn't state that the trumpet is to be 'distant' or off-stage.

[Ein Heldenleben]

A wonderful concert with so many highlights . Comment seems almost superfluous given the sombre context but it seems a pity not to thank the many musicians who made the evening memorable. One post has already mentioned. Roderick Williams's superb diction . From where I was in the hall every word was crystal clear - and what musicality and phrasing coupled with a tremendously engaging stage presence The subtlety of the orchestration helped so much in letting the words be heard. I hope the work in this arrangement gets many more performances . I found ' The Lads in their hundreds' almost unbearably moving. Looking at the faces around me I was not alone.
The Pastoral was , for me at least, a shattering experience - masterfully conducted . The entrance of the tenor shocking - in a good sense- to those more used to a soprano. But again given this concert was a memorial for so many dead young men it felt completely right. Thankfully the radio three posters seem unaware of the mobile phone that , incredibly , went off about a minute into the second movement - I hope no one heard it at home.
Yes - the score has meticulous instructions on the the natural trumpet and acceptable alternatives and also on the touch of genius that is the reprise on natural horn at the end - as though a fog has descended on the landscape. I think though it might have been natural tpt and then valve horn tonight .
The musical arc that Andrew Manze and his players created felt entirely natural and unforced. At the end I was left thinking - I admit not very originally - what an art form this is - where the dead can speak to us with such intensity . But only with the hard work and artistry of the living.

[Nick Armstrong]

Another great review from the hall, Heldenleben - thank you!

I was otherwise engaged, so must make a point of catching up with this - for many reasons, not least that one of our number was the orchestrator of the songs, wonderfully it seems! And how great Pabs, that you had Roderick W to give your première, one of the handful of top singers working at the moment imo.

Can't wait to hear this concert

[Nick Armstrong]

PS ... which I'm delighted to see is on TV this Friday!

[BBMmk2]

I have a number of Proms to catch up on, sadly may not but I was keen to catch this live last night. And was not disappointed, The works of Stephan and Kelly, I thought were highly original. One of the best proms this year!! :)

[Ferretfancy]

Thanks to all for the information about the natural trumpet, I should have been more observant. I like the point about the use of a tenor reflecting the loss of so many men in the war, but his placing in the hall still seemed to close to be really evocative in the way that the composer surely intended, it's usually a magic moment rather than a direct one.

[ardcarp]

Just heard the first half online. Fantastic Butterworth...brilliant Pabs!!! And Roderick W was as good as it gets.

The Kelly was an interesting piece. I though Manze's comments about it were silly, talking as he did of the harmonic simplicity and consecutive fifths and octaves as if they mattered. VW's Tallis Fantasis (c.1910) had been a huge influence on a young generation of composeres, not least Kelly, obviously. The whole point was to overthrow convention, and to use 'simple' chords in new and interesting juxtapositions. But Manze directed a fine concert, and I dare say those snatches of dialogue in between items are so potted as to be useless.

Just about to LA the Butterworth a couple more times!

[pureimagination]

Thanks - I listened to it and it works well in orchestral colours (many songs wouldn't) doesn't it? I'd have liked all eleven to have been done, partly because "Bredon Hill" and "On the Idle Hill of Summer" are substantial pieces and gave really good opportunities for orchestration.

Second half soon...

Let me add my thanks to Pabmusic (sorry for the informality, like I know you!) for the sympathetic orchestration. I was slightly dreading it. I look forward to hearing more. Much praise to Roderick Williams (yes, great diction) and to Andrew Manze and the SSO (attended a previous prom in I think 2012 where they performed RVW Symphony's 4 5 & 6). This was another prom where the pieces complimented each other perfectly, yes sombre but nevertheless a highlight of this year's Proms.

[Lento]

Most enjoyable concert, though I'm quite glad VW took a change in direction for Nos 4 and 6. I wonder if he was quoting "I vow to thee my country" towards the end (though he was probably just being modal/folky).

[salymap]

It isn't every day we have a forum member making

such an important contribution to a Prom.

Pabmusic -

Wish I could hear it pabs. Still no music for me- hearing aids being changed..

[Serial_Apologist]

I wonder if he was quoting "I vow to thee my country" towards the end (though he was probably just being modal/folky).

I've wondered the selfsame thing ever since I first heard the Third, though funnily enough, this is the first time I'm aware that anyone else has mentioned it. It's worth remembering that that particular theme was not the patriotic hymn it was made into without Holst's permission, and much against his wishes, after it had appeared in The Planets. A message to Holst, perhaps? Who knows.

[Pabmusic]

Let me add my thanks to Pabmusic (sorry for the informality, like I know you!) for the sympathetic orchestration. I was slightly dreading it...

And I too was dreading it, though probably for different reasons. (Informality is welcome - music aids that, surely?)