Prom 31 - 9.08/14: Hallé, Coote / Elder

[Petrushka]

Sea Pictures: beautiful music, shame about the poetry (at least Elgar had the good sense to cut the last one: didn't have much choice really). Philistine outburst over.

Philistine rant or not, this would seem to be the generally held verdict on the Sea Pictures and it's hard to disagree.

[Roehre]

Except that the warhorse is one of handful of symphonies vying for a place at the head of the table of the greatest symphonies ever written.

And my admiration for the work has even grown significantly after going through the sketches in the recently published "Eroica"-sketchbook (a nice birthday present of Mrs R ).
Nevertheless: it is a warhorse.

[David-G]

And my admiration for the work has even grown significantly after going through the sketches in the recently published "Eroica"-sketchbook (a nice birthday present of Mrs R ).
Nevertheless: it is a warhorse.

I fail to understand. Are you saying that the greatest works of music should be played less, because they are played too often because they are great? Seems a strange argument to me.

[Pabmusic]

Sea Pictures: beautiful music, shame about the poetry (at least Elgar had the good sense to cut the last one: didn't have much choice really). Philistine outburst over.

Agreed. Elgar never seemed to care much about the quality of the words; perhaps he was stimulated by particular ideas they contained.

As for the music, it's not a great masterpiece but it's hardly insignificant, either. It has moments of genius - the four-octave unison in the strings very early in the first song perfectly represents the ebb and flow of waves in the deep, and it's beautifully scored. Where Corals Lie is a gem, like a movement from The Wand of Youth. In Haven is almost as good. But Sabbath Morning at Sea becomes boring (and pious, like Maunder or Stainer) though for me it's partly rescued by knowing that the opening and closing chords are lifted from the Powick Lunatic Asylum music. The Swimmer has great energy but the tunes are not as fine as in similar Elgar movements such as the last of the Violin Concerto.

Remember, it was written during a very busy period. There were all the arrangements surrounding the first performance of the Enigma. Elgar then revised the Three Characteristic Pieces, Op. 10 for publication. He made changes to The Light of Life for a revival at the Three Choirs. Then came the new ending of the Enigma and a serious falling-out with Novello's over payment. And on top of it all, the Elgars were moving house (to Craeg Lea)!

[Tevot]

Hello there,

I'd agree too. I find the sea -slumber song quite haunting.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Pabmusic]

Hello there,

I'd agree too. I find the sea -slumber song quite haunting.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

Yes it is. I have always found it useful to understand the circumstances in which things were written. It tells us a lot.

[kea]

I fail to understand. Are you saying that the greatest works of music should be played less, because they are played too often because they are great? Seems a strange argument to me.

I'm not sure, the question I usually ask is why should I listen to this Eroica, instead of the one by e.g. Böhm, Harnoncourt, Solti, Furtwängler, Bernstein, Abbado, Karajan, Norrington, Mackerras, Kletzki, Leibowitz, Immerseel, Klemperer, Dohnanyi, Skrowaczewski, etc, etc... which are easily accessible through a desktop app in my case, and (some of) which are easily accessible through your CD shelf in your case, all without paying for a Proms ticket and navigating central London by tube and so forth.

But suppose instead of Beethoven's 3rd symphony, it is that of Johann Schmecklbergerstein, latterly of Saarbrucken. Then I would be much more tempted to go to the concert, even if it does not prove to be as good as CPO's recording featuring Engelbert Wienerschnitzel conducting the SWR Ost-West-Saxony, and nor is the music nearly as inspired as Beethoven's great Eroica: for the likelihood of having heard the piece in concert previously is quite slim and it provides me the opportunity to familiarise myself with music I don't know backwards and inside out as I do with Beethoven, having even taken part in the 3rd performance of the second arrangement of the symphony for accordion orchestra.

The masterpieces are obviously great for a reason but sometimes you just need a break from them

[Pabmusic]

…Johann Schmecklbergerstein...

And how unjustly neglected is he!!!

...Engelbert Wienerschnitzel conducting the SWR Ost-West-Saxony...

A superb band, under an unjustly-neglected maestro…

I don't understand the innate prejudice that so many display towards such unjustly-neglected artists. Their neglect is truly unjust.

Unjust, I say...

[cloughie]

And how unjustly neglected is he!!!



A superb band, under an unjustly-neglected maestro…

I don't understand the innate prejudice that so many display towards such unjustly-neglected artists. Their neglect is truly unjust.

Unjust, I say...

...but was his neglect connected to an alleged relationship with a teenage pupil?
...and anyway I could listen to the Eroica anytime anywhere and not tire of it!

[Pabmusic]

...but was his neglect connected to an alleged relationship with a teenage pupil?...

I thought it was a baboon…

Perhaps an underage baboon.

Or maybe I misheard.

[cloughie]

I thought it was a baboon…

Perhaps an underage baboon.

Or maybe I misheard.

...and I think the Wienerschnitzel performance was overdone to the point of being unpalatable!

[gurnemanz]

I know the Elgar Sea Pictures quite well (Baker/Barbirolli) but they have never been a particular favourite. We were in the Hall on Saturday and hearing them for the first time in concert. With the live sonorities I appreciated them a lot more than I ever have on disc. It was a not a Prom we had specifically picked out but attended on a last minute basis because we were already in London in the afternoon and South Ken is on the way home. It turned out to be a very good evening an enjoyable programme. (Reviewed here). Sold out, so we went promming and sought restoration in the Queen's Arms afterwards. An excellent pint which cost nearly as much as the Prom standing ticket.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I fail to understand. Are you saying that the greatest works of music should be played less, because they are played too often because they are great? Seems a strange argument to me.

I didn't understand Roehre as meaning this - is "warhorse" a pejoritive term? I thought he meant that the programme as a whole didn't appear to be particularly well-composed (with which I would agree - the choice of works seemed rather shunted together: a bit like when you grab a handful of CDs for an unexpected car journey.)

Someone somewhere will be hearing the Eroica for the first time (I almost envy them) - and as Karajan put it

The main thing about these great masterpieces is that you can never say of them contemptuously "Well, it's always the same old thing". They become younger and younger every day; and the more you play them, the more you know you can never get to the bottom of them.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Someone somewhere will be hearing the Eroica for the first time (I almost envy them) - and as Karajan put it...[/I]

Yes. The moment ofdiscovery of such outstanding works is so precious.

[Serial_Apologist]

Listening just now to "Le Corsaire" (1845) for the first time ever, if I'm not mistaken there are a few cribs from Glinka's "Russlan & Ludmilla" overture (1842)