Prom 26 - 5.08.14: EUYO / London Voices, Petrenko

[Sir Velo]

He'd obviously had too much orange squash before going on air tonight - earlier he had a couple of stabs at 'Luciano Berio' and 'phenomenological' and generally he seemed too hyperactive to be in safe charge of a microphone.

Apart from a couple of minor lapses in wind and brass (surely forgivable) this was an excellent concert. Certainly one of the best - in terms of clarity - performances of the Berio I've heard. But what shocking presentation. I dug out a cassette earlier today of a 1984 Proms performance of Sinfonia that I had attended and was struck by the sober, stick-to-the-script announcements. How I miss that. Tom Service is knowledgeable and often engagingly enthusiastic but this was just too much.

Anyone catch his buttock clenching interview with a young prommer after the Berio? Best to avoid if listening again. He did also say "Shostakovich
at the end of his life, just before he died..." at which point he was muted.

Sadly, we can expect Service to be resumed before long.

[Bryn]

Is that the one on Youtube, Bryn?

Yes, but unfortunately, the end of the final movement is missing from the YouTube posting. I have the whole thing on VHS, somewhere, and possibly a transfer to DVD-R, too. The reception quality I had access to, however, was not all it might have been.

[Found the DVD-R. I actually labelled it as a poor recording from VHS. It was BBC2, not Channel 4, and was introduced by Rattle and Berio, with contributions from various other musicians. The programme is copyright 1987 and was directed by none other them Barry Gavin.]

[Nick Armstrong]

I file DSCH's 4th under 'if you think you've had a bad day,listen to this'.

That's a very good description Rob!!

I shall heed the encouragement of ferney, HD and others and keep trying!

[Tom Service] obviously had too much orange squash before going on air tonight - earlier he had a couple of stabs at 'Luciano Berio' and 'phenomenological' and generally he seemed too hyperactive to be in safe charge of a microphone.

...Tom Service is knowledgeable and often engagingly enthusiastic but this was just too much.

That's so true. I toyed with a couple of posts on the subject last night having had the misfortune to hear his bletherings, but decided against posting as I didn't have a lot to say about the music and didn't want to be negative. But Service has become ludicrous. You're right - he started out sounding knowledgeable and enthusiastic, a few years back, but he is now gabblingly intrusive (both on his own, and when he interrupts someone else to add an explanatory factoid, a sort of audible subtitle for the weak of intellect ... he did it last night when one of the young players mentioned 'Enigma Variations' and he butted in: "Elgar". Berk ). He was packing the facts in breathlessly until seconds before the downbeat into the Shostakovich.

He needs to reduce the number of words he says on air by about 50%, and he'd return to being a sensible broadcaster.

[Blotto]

He needs to reduce the number of words he says on air by about 50%, and he'd return to being a sensible broadcaster.

He's improved markedly when he's not live but he's very obviously very nervous when he is. He gabbled a bit at the Arditti's 40th birthday bash at the Barbican. However, given how nervous he is, he's quite a brave chap to keep on with it and there is information in the chatter.

He was actually waving his hand alot and gesticulating as he talked before the Shostakovich. I have to say I didn't notice the kids being interviewed so I think this must have been done quickly during the interval before the section was broadcast but it did make the introduction a bit cramped. I thought he was helpful to the children with his prompts because they didn't have a great deal to say, the younger child particularly.

One minor moment - the orchestra was enormous and they kept drifting back on stage in groups of 10 and 15. The applause started up at random as each of these groups appeared and there was evident mischief in the initiators who found they could stimulate applause in other members of the audience. It may not sound much (it wasn't, I suppose) but the cumulative effect was terribly funny.

PS: Stephen Johnson's Discovering Music on the 4th symphony is still online. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01n1s1x

If anybody listens and knows the name of the singer of the Mahler song just after 9 minutes in, I'd be glad to know it.

[Petrushka]

This was a terrific Prom and any regrets I had concerning the absence of Semyon Bychkov were swept aside by the enormously talented conducting of Vasilly Petrenko . We tend to forget, perhaps, that Petrenko isn't yet 40 and this was a scary programme to take on at short notice. I don't know if Petrenko has conducted the Berio before but he was in complete command of the piece. I also have to lodge a complaint that the words were mostly inaudible from my seat in 'H' stalls but it was wonderful to hear the Berio Sinfonia live for the first time. What a revolutionary work it still sounds!

I was present at the 1978 Rozhdestvensky Prom (my 4th Prom!) and the 2002 Gergiev in addition to Haitink in 2008 so this one had something to live up to. In the event it was an unqualified triumph for all concerned. A magnificent evening.

Yes, there were plenty of empty seats in the Circle but this was a demanding programme and there were still enough people there to fill the Barbican or the RFH twice over It was also good to see so many youngsters there as well as several Indian punters spotted in the corridors.

I also saw the guy with the 'Havergal Brian Lives!' T shirt but Dave2002's comment reminded me that I saw a guy near the British Museum a fortnight ago with a T shirt that said 'Wahn, Wahn, überall Wahn!' Anyone here going to own up to that one?

[Stanfordian]

This was a terrific Prom and any regrets I had concerning the absence of Semyon Bychkov were swept aside by the enormously talented conducting of Vasilly Petrenko . We tend to forget, perhaps, that Petrenko isn't yet 40 and this was a scary programme to take on at short notice. I don't know if Petrenko has conducted the Berio before but he was in complete command of the piece. I also have to lodge a complaint that the words were mostly inaudible from my seat in 'H' stalls but it was wonderful to hear the Berio Sinfonia live for the first time. What a revolutionary work it still sounds!

I was present at the 1978 Rozhdestvensky Prom (my 4th Prom!) and the 2002 Gergiev in addition to Haitink in 2008 so this one had something to live up to. In the event it was an unqualified triumph for all concerned. A magnificent evening.

Yes, there were plenty of empty seats in the Circle but this was a demanding programme and there were still enough people there to fill the Barbican or the RFH twice over It was also good to see so many youngsters there as well as several Indian punters spotted in the corridors.

I also saw the guy with the 'Havergal Brian Lives!' T shirt but Dave2002's comment reminded me that I saw a guy near the British Museum a fortnight ago with a T shirt that said 'Wahn, Wahn, überall Wahn!' Anyone here going to own up to that one?

Hiya Petrushka,

I am lucky to attend Liverpool Phil concerts conducted by Vasily Petrenko fairly often. Yes, he is certainly a fine conductor and not just in Russian repertoire such as Shostakovich. I have heard him often conduct excellent standard repertoire such as Brahms and Beethoven symphonies and a stunning Elgar First Symphony. I believe he is still relatively unknown on the world stage. A hidden gem in fact. When I have attended concerts in Europe especially in Germany if I mention the name Petrenko I find people will usually think of Kirill Petrenko the music director of the Bavarian State Opera, Munich.

[Lento]

Berio Sinfonia "more like a trip down Carnaby Street without the tunes", apparently. A bit of a low blow - but quite funny.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/proms/11015912/BBC-Prom-26-European-Union-Youth-Orchestra-review-uninvolving.html

[Blotto]

Andrew Clements in The Guardian had reservations, too,:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/aug/06/prom-26-euyo-petrenko-review-sardonic-shostakovich-blurry-berio

[Nachtigall]

Berio Sinfonia "more than a trip down Carnaby Street without the tunes", apparently. A bit of a low blow - but quite funny.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/m...involving.html

"Uninvolving"? For God's sake! A poor review by John Allison. I also found some of his comments about Petrenko idiotic and tasteless. He should have stayed away.

[Dave2002]

"Uninvolving"? For God's sake! A poor review by John Allison. I also found some of his comments about Petrenko idiotic and tasteless. He should have stayed away.

What the heck

.. it still seems strange that someone so preoccupied with levels of testosterone on the podium cuts such a balletic, marionette-like figure when he conducts.

What kind of stereotyping are we supposed to imagine here, I wonder!

I suppose Mr Allinson can do better himself in Shostakovich since he seems to know how it should go!

The Grauniad review did seem more balanced, and I do believe there were problems with the balance in the Berio - which I barely heard from
outside the hall. Perhaps that was also Petrenko's "fault" - but there may have been less he could have done about that. At least the guardian remarked
that some (much) of the Shostakovich was superb.

[Lento]

"Uninvolving"? For God's sake!

A strange word to use, admittedly, and in the article's title too. I'd have thought it must be quite hard to produce an uninvolving performance of either of these pieces. And he didn't, imv, though, as previously stated, I think there are much better Shost symphonies to be had than this one, in musical terms.

[Ferretfancy]

What the heck

What kind of stereotyping are we supposed to imagine here, I wonder!

I suppose Mr Allinson can do better himself in Shostakovich since he seems to know how it should go!

The Grauniad review did seem more balanced, and I do believe there were problems with the balance in the Berio - which I barely heard from
outside the hall. Perhaps that was also Petrenko's "fault" - but there may have been less he could have done about that. At least the guardian remarked
that some (much) of the Shostakovich was superb.

It certainly wasn't Petrenko's fault, I think it's simply that the Berio works better in a drier acoustic than the Albert Hall can offer.It should be possible to improve the sound reinforcement system,as it isn't only the Berio that has suffered, after all it's usually performed with one voice to a mike. Problems have also arisen with the sound on Kiss Me Kate last week, as well as the narration on the Pet Shop Boys late night offering.

Maybe the speakers above the canopy could be replaced with something better, or even re-located, the quality is very unsatisfactory as it is, especially in the Arena. I have spoken to people who have sat in different parts of the hall, and none of them have been happy with the very poor clarity.

[Tevot]

Hello there,

Listening to the Berio on Listen Again I was first struck by how soupy the acoustic was. This might have been down to my ears or the headphone set I was wearing - but I quickly got used to it. Things quickly perked up and much of the dialogue/ script - call it what you will - could be heard -so much so that the fluffed lines made by the lead speaker - was it Ben Parry? - in the 3rd movement were all too apparent. Nonetheless - this imho didn't spoil the performance...

I've listened to Sinfonia many times over the past 30 years since I first encountered it. I sometimes used to think it was passé- but given what has happened over the past few weeks and months I think it is as relevant as ever.

And then - Shosta 4 - not as fast or as aggressive as some I've heard - but my oh my what a punch it still managed to pack. There's a bit of it towards the end (about 6 minutes or so) when the timpani starts up again and the there is I suppose a scream from the orchestra - it is literally hair-raising and was again on this hearing. And then that eerie coda - and somewhere in the bass - not merely a hint would you believe - but four notes repeated that anticipate the James Bond theme...?

Tell me if I'm wrong

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Blotto]

I confess I didn't enjoy the Berio. He may have amused himself writing the piece, but I found it on the whole unamusing and self-defeating. My Spanish neighbour in the Stalls described it as "musical positivism", whatever that means.

I've struggled with "musical positivism", also. Looking at the definitions of 'positivism', I found:

rejecting metaphysics and ... The theory that laws and their operation derive validity from the fact of ... deriving logically from existing decisions

Could his point be something to do with serialism? A consequence of logic presiding over musical decisions?

The only piece of Berio I'd ever heard before was his Boccherini arrangement (which I always think of when Birtwistle is mentioned because I can remember hearing someone, perhaps Berio himself describe as like hearing a band from differing perspectives as it marched in parade around the streets of a town). This I neither liked nor disliked. I think I could hear some of its obvious virtues - vigour, variety and pin bright/pin sharp beauty but the references and quotations were so numerous and various that they passed me by. It was Saul Belllow/Herzog made musical.

When something is as diverse and literate and multi-lingual as this, how does one appreciate it? Or are the rhythms of the phrases substantially to be appreciated as rhythm and therefore as music?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Could his point be something to do with serialism? A consequence of logic presiding over musical decisions?

I have greater difficulty with this statement than I do with the concept of "Musical Positivism" (which is simply a rejection of the "extra-Musical", programmatic concerns of the Late Romantics - the aural equivalent of "Logical Positivism").

First - Serialism is a purely Musical phenomenon, because it works only with aural material. There aren't any Serial Sculptors, or Serial Novelists (what Dickens did uses a different meaning ) because vision and language don't have the inherent properties of, say, a Major Third or a minor seventh that enable them to be treated Serially. It is pure (or, if you prefer, "purely") Music, exploring and presenting areas of perception and reception in ways in ways in which only Sound can be explored and presented. (Which is not the same thing as saying that Serialism is the only way that Sound can be explored and presented; Serialism is merely a tool - a method of working that composers can use, adapt or ignore as they feel fit. Which leads me to ...

Second - Berio wasn't a Serial composer (pace Arnold Whittall), and Sinfonia isn't a Serial work.