Prom 21 - 2.08.14: Kiss Me, Kate

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Saturday 2 August
7.30 p.m. – c. 10.30 p.m.
Royal Albert Hall

Kiss Me, Kate with the John Wilson Orchestra and a cast of leading singers, live at the BBC Proms

Cole Porter: Kiss Me Kate

Fred Graham / Petruchio ..... Ben Davis
Lilli Vanessi / Katherine Minola ..... Alexandra Silber
Bill Calhoun / Lucentio ..... Tony Yazbeck
Lois Lane / Bianca ..... Louise Dearman
John Wilson Orchestra
John Wilson (conductor)

The appearances of John Wilson and his orchestra have become one of the annual highlights of the Proms. Following the enormous success of the staged performance of My Fair Lady in 2012, John Wilson returns to perform Cole Porter's Tony Award-winning musical Kiss Me, Kate in its original 1948 arrangements. He is joined by a cast of leading singers in this irreverent reworking of The Taming of the Shrew - a play within a play.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The appearances of John Wilson and his orchestra have become one of the annual highlights of the Proms.

Can anyone tell me why the singers need amplification at proms such as this?

[Dave2002]

Can anyone tell me why the singers need amplification at proms such as this?

I hope it's not overdone, if it's done at all. I have tickets for that one.

Can ruin any spatial effect, and also add distortion, but I guess some performers just don't have powerful enough voices or good enough vocal technique to project in a very large hall. Also, given the artificiality of most entertainment, why shouldn't appropriate aids be used?

[kernelbogey]

I have a prejudice against these musicals. I'm a bit puzzled about my prejudice, since I like opera. But one aspect of my dislike, with which I'd like some help, is a style of singing which is, as far as I know, unique to american musical. I can best describe it as a half-sung, half spoken exposition, the voice often switching from sweetness to roughness (or vice versa) in line with the lyrics. Does this style have a name? I'm sorry to say that I am inordinately irritated by it, and it is this above all which deters me from listening to this Prom at all; perhaps a shame, as I imagine it will be well done for music of its kind.

[pastoralguy]

?..I imagine it will be well done for music of its kind.

And what kind would that be?

[MrGongGong]

Can anyone tell me why the singers need amplification at proms such as this?

(you causing trouble again ? just because mr Gove has gone there's no need for this kind of behaviour !)

[bluestateprommer]

Can anyone tell me why the singers need amplification at proms such as this?

I can hazard a guess. Back in the day, Cole Porter, George Gershwin, Rodgers & Hammerstein, etc. wrote for theaters on Broadway that were, and are, obviously much smaller than the RAH, at the risk of stating the incredibly obvious. Because those theaters and spaces are much smaller, the singers could clearly project to the whole house without amplification. (This presumes standard singing training, of course.) Also, the pit orchestras wouldn't be as huge as a full symphony, or even a mid-size Sibelius-scale orchestra, so that would be much less sound to project over. Although my experience of West End venues is very limited, my general sense is that the theater (OK, theatre) sizes are comparable to Broadway houses in being comparatively modest and intimate. They would have to be so compared to the RAH, by definition.

Thus for the John Wilson performances in the RAH, you have a souped-up orchestra, in a mammoth size hall, for works like a Cole Porter musical that he never wrote with such massive venues in mind. So amplification is understandable, especially in the dialogue portions, but also for the singing, since Cole Porter didn't have "operatic" scale singers in mind. I'm not saying this too well, but hopefully the gist gets through.

Will be interesting to read the full cast if/when the BBC puts it up. To be honest, when I've seen this show, Act II rather falls apart dramatically and is quite a mish-mash. But the songs are the thing, of course.

[Quarky]

I have a prejudice against these musicals. I'm a bit puzzled about my prejudice, since I like opera. But one aspect of my dislike, with which I'd like some help, is a style of singing which is, as far as I know, unique to american musical. I can best describe it as a half-sung, half spoken exposition, the voice often switching from sweetness to roughness (or vice versa) in line with the lyrics. Does this style have a name? I'm sorry to say that I am inordinately irritated by it, and it is this above all which deters me from listening to this Prom at all; perhaps a shame, as I imagine it will be well done for music of its kind.

imv, like all popular music, singing style is not important. In fact, it can detract from the value of the musical - Cf. Operatic versions of West Side Story.

What is important is identifying with the performer, and the message/ emotion that the performer is attempting to get across. I can imagine for a musician well versed in opera, lied, choral etc., it may be very difficult to throw away all that training, and get down to basic gut feelings.

[kernelbogey]

And what kind would that be?

I didn't mean to come across as dismissive, but owning my own prejudice.

What I meant by the above quoted remark is that it will be good of its kind, i.e. a musical. CF The Good Food Guide, which may give a top rating to a fish and chip shop, not because it rivals The Fat Duck et al, but because it is a supremely good fish and chip shop.

[french frank]

I didn't mean to come across as dismissive, but owning my own prejudice.

I think you described it very well in your previous post. I think it's less of a prejudice than pure personal taste. So many musicals come over to me as saccherine, 'pleasant', musically vapid, emotionally heart-on-sleeve; while opera is blood-and-guts, fire, raw.

Light music is to me much like musicals ... I find it easy to accept that John Wilson's orchestrations are superlative, and the orchestral performances likewise. I just don't like them, and they don't interest me because the music doesn't. And, yes, of course it says more about me than about JW. And, no, there's no reason to think it 'sad': there is more than enough music that does interest me to fill all available hours for listening

[kernelbogey]

...a style of singing which is, as far as I know, unique to american musical. I can best describe it as a half-sung, half spoken exposition, the voice often switching from sweetness to roughness (or vice versa) in line with the lyrics. Does this style have a name? [...]

I call it 'scat singing' to myself, aware that that means something else to others.

[Serial_Apologist]

I call it 'scat singing' to myself, aware that that means something else to others.

Ooh shoobie-doobie, in the words of Dizzy Gillespie

[Ferretfancy]

John Wilson's orchestrations are not his, as far as possible they are reconstructions of the original orchestrations, drawn from original sources where possible. Although the average pit orchestra today may be fairly small, the orchestras back then were much larger. I was taken to see Oklahoma at the Coliseum when the London production was new, and it was a big band indeed.

The best Broadway musicals still have tremendous style and wit which leaves the vapourings of Lloyd Webber and his ilk nowhere.

I was warned yesterday that there will be reduced standing room in the Promenade tonight, so I assume that part of the space will be used as a stage in front of the normal platform

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The best Broadway musicals still have tremendous style and wit which leaves the vapourings of Lloyd Webber and his ilk nowhere.

- adding only that "some of the worst Broadway musicals" also have these qualities.

[Stanley Stewart]

John Wilson's orchestrations are not his, as far as possible they are reconstructions of the original orchestrations, drawn from original sources where possible. Although the average pit orchestra today may be fairly small, the orchestras back then were much larger. I was taken to see Oklahoma at the Coliseum when the London production was new, and it was a big band indeed.

The best Broadway musicals still have tremendous style and wit which leaves the vapourings of Lloyd Webber and his ilk nowhere.

I was warned yesterday that there will be reduced standing room in the Promenade tonight, so I assume that part of the space will be used as a stage in front of the normal platform

Curious to see your reference to seeing Oklahoma! at the Coliseum, Ff, but realised it was probably a slip of the pen when you referred to it as new. The original production was, in fact, staged at Drury Lane Theatre, circa 1946, and transferred for several years to the even more cavernous Stoll Theatre, Kingsway, where I first saw it.

During my stint of National Service in the early 50s, followed by frequent visits to London before I took residence for 30 years, I recall regular visits to the Coliseum before Sadler's Wells moved in, 1968; Annie Get Your Gun - the wonderful Dolores Gray - Call me Madam, Guys & Dolls, The Most Happy Fella, Kiss me Kate - all with a few of the original Broadway cast - Damn Yankees, The Pyjama Game etc. Amplification? A few mics along the 'floats' but most of the players knew how to project but this was an era where a piercing "SPEAK UP" from the auditorium greeted any mumbling.

I also recall a later production of Oklahoma! at the Palace Theatre, early 80s, with Alfred Molina, a scary Judd! Best of all, I remember Trevor Nunn's staging at the Olivier, NT, in 1998 and still give it an outing on DVD.