Prom 19 - 31.07.14: RLPO, Dam-Jensen / V. Petrenko

[vibratoforever]

Do give my regards to your Chief Superintendant !

Yes, there was an interval after the first three movements here. Well spotted, Detective Constable!

As for a review, I'd half-thought I'd wait until I've listened a few more times. It's a piece that means a lot to me, and I didn't want to be too hasty about a performance which was so well played and so heartfelt. I had caught the first 10 minutes or so when it was being broadcast live and mentioned elsewhere straight away that in contrast to the BBC Phil Mahler 5, the tempos of the Elgar seemed wrong.

That's still how I feel. It seemed to me that fast music was paced by Petrenko just too fast to make the music tell, and the slow music often too slow; and the upset tempo relationships prevented the performance from cohering.

The last movement was more successful, it seemed to me, with the music being allowed to speak for itself and brilliantly played, but the conclusion was then subjected to tempo extremes which again... well, I'm sure it would most probably been overwhelming live, but seemed to me to be 'doing a Bernstein' (apposite, thinking about his 'Nimrod') - not trusting the stunning quality of the writing, and applying additional & excessive 'meaningfulness'.

But there were sufficient good things, and obvious sincerity and passion by Petrenko, that I shall be listening again. I really want to like the performance!

The comment regarding tempo and tempo relationships has been made before about Petrenko. His performance of the Purgatorio movement of Mahler 10 showed exactly what has been described and provoked the same reaction.

Like others I found the performance of the last movement to be very good. The Rondo was for me the least effective, partly because I had never before heard it completed in less than 7m 30s. About 40 seconds from the end of the movement the tempo slowed almost to a standstill and then in an instant reached top speed! I just don't get it! The first movement was also spoiled by some less extreme instances of this approach.

Regardless, it was a more interesting effort than Barenboim's recent release.

[Nick Armstrong]

Even over 100 years after the first performance, the world at large still hasn't realised what a truly great symphony this is.

Perhaps Barenboim's latest recording with the Berlin Staatskapelle will mark a sea change in the fortunes of the work.

You no doubt know that he's performing it in the RFH with that orchestra on 21 April 2015...

Regardless, it was a more interesting effort than Barenboim's recent release.

I guess you won't be there, vibrato?

[ucanseetheend]

When is this on TV?

There is a BBC radio 3 youtube upload of the second movement of the Elgar 2 in this concert , why isnt the whole concert on BBC Iplayer if it was broadcast live ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

There is a BBC radio 3 youtube upload of the second movement of the Elgar 2 in this concert , why isnt the whole concert on BBC Iplayer if it was broadcast live ?

Here you go, seethey:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04cf7bj

... but, as it's the Afternoon on 3 broadcast, it's only available for another couple of days. (The evening Live broadcasts are available for three weeks or so). This is not the only Prom that's been i-Played in this peculiar manner - but it might appear on the three week option after the two-day period has finished, as happened with the Birtwistle half of that Prom. Confused? Join the club! Whatever the labyrinths of BBC "logic" (therein lies madness) I hope you enjoy the entire concert.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oops - beg the Beeb's pardon - the entire concert is available for the whole three-week offer on i-Player:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04brzmb

... again, if you missed it, it may have been added after you looked - as was the case with the Birtwistle Prom.

[Petrushka]

You no doubt know that he's performing it in the RFH with that orchestra on 21 April 2015...

Indeed I do. Had my ticket for several weeks!

[ucanseetheend]

Here you go, seethey:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04cf7bj

... but, as it's the Afternoon on 3 broadcast, it's only available for another couple of days. (The evening Live broadcasts are available for three weeks or so). This is not the only Prom that's been i-Played in this peculiar manner - but it might appear on the three week option after the two-day period has finished, as happened with the Birtwistle half of that Prom. Confused? Join the club! Whatever the labyrinths of BBC "logic" (therein lies madness) I hope you enjoy the entire concert.

Sorry I was not clear . I am referring to the TV relay on Iplayer

[amateur51]

You no doubt know that he's performing it in the RFH with that orchestra on 21 April 2015...



I guess you won't be there, vibrato?

I guess that vibrato thinks it's no great shakes?!

[mercia]

Sorry I was not clear . I am referring to the TV relay on Iplayer

BBC4 Strauss + Elgar - one day left

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04crs49/bbc-proms-2014-season-the-sunday-prom-richard-strauss-celebration

Elgar starts 1 hour 3 minutes in

[amateur51]

Many thanks for the alert, mercs

I enjoyed the Elgar symphony no 2 because i love the piece but I agree with others who mentioned the gear changes, the fast so fast and the slow so slow. It struck me that Petrenko seemed to have his nose in the score rather a lot and that his gestures were rather broad brush for one who is so often fastidious in his demands.

The brass were encouraged rather too often (Richard Strauss would have been appalled ) and while it often sounded wonderful, I missed a lot of the string detail beneath, whereas the woodwind seemed to be better miked.

Petrenko seemed to be over-emoting - what is it about Liverpool that teaches a young Russian to gurn like a young scouser (Rattle)? - given that the Strauss pieces probably hogged most of the rehearsal time perhaps what we saw was something not as well prepared as it might have been and while the orchestra probably knows the piece well, the maestro was feeling a touch adrift in a complex score.

"Elgar with an English orchestra? - tell me Valery, what can possibly go wrong?"

[Simon B]

Looks like the eventual rough summary could be that there's a divide between those who hear the slightly unconventional approach to Elgar 2 as either fresh and illuminating or unsatisfyingly unidiomatic and striving for superficial effect. Touches of Solti perhaps?

It's a cheap 'n easy cliché (one that I happily resorted to when wittering on about the RFH LPO/Petrenko Elgar 2 in the spring) but there's more than a touch of Tchaikovsky there. That's either a welcome infusion of bristling momentum and drama - but not at the expense of the reflective and rarefied moments - or it's "Elgar for those who don't like Elgar". Even those like Nachtigall who've been members of the Elgar society for 40 years .

Either way, this particular explanation for disconnect:

given that the Strauss pieces probably hogged most of the rehearsal time perhaps what we saw was something not as well prepared as it might have been and while the orchestra probably knows the piece well, the maestro was feeling a touch adrift in a complex score.

probably doesn't stack up. This was, I think, the 7th concert performance of the symphony Petrenko has conducted in the UK in the last few years, the 4th this year, 3 with the RLPO. It either has just been, or is about to be, commercially recorded with the RLPO too.

The Proms performance was very similar to that with the LPO a few months ago http://www.edwardseckerson.biz/revie...l-hall-review/ - except that IMO he got closer to the essence of the first movement. Tempi, drive, incisive brass and an unusually full-hearted yet radiant finale were all much the same. It seems likely he got what he intended.

More likely you just aren't particularly convinced by his interpretation - which is fair enough...

[Tevot]

Hello there,

Have now just finished listening to all the pieces in this concert...

On the whole I enjoyed it. The Festive Prelude enabled me to play spot the tune (intimations of earlier Strauss works were certainly there I think) and indeed the closing passages reminded me of the finale of Mahler 7. As for the Motet - I will be positive and say that I think that Brahms did that kind of stuff better

4LS were good imho listening via Listen Again - and the Soloist seemed to be properly balanced for Radio listeners...

Elgar 2 - Well worth hearing but I wouldn't call Petrenko's performance "restless and quixotic" as the announcer described the symphony at the interval. It was idiosyncratic - and for me the movements that clicked were the adagio and the finale...

I have a backlog at the moment but am looking forward to listening to Petrenko's Berio and Shosta 4.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Roehre]

....The Festive Prelude enabled me to play spot the tune (intimations of earlier Strauss works were certainly there I think) and indeed the closing passages reminded me of the finale of Mahler 7. ...

But are you missing the big one then?

[Tevot]

But are you missing the big one then?

Give us a clue

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Well, having listened to the Elgar three times now, I'll put in my tuppence 'alfpenny and say it was one of the greatest performances of one of the greatest Symphonies ever written. The orchestral playing was superb (a glitch of ensemble at the opening of the Second Movement apart) - soloistic detail was of the demonstration class (the solo violin at figure 33 was perfect, and the sprung rhythms of the Oboe solo at 79 in the Second movement perfectly poised - and that's not to mention the player's near superhuman breath control) and ensembles were magnificently balanced (not least the way the Bassoons emerge from their unison with the Horns at the start of the Coda of the Second Movement). The Brass section was fantastic, the Woodwinds magnificent, the Percussion perfect, and the Strings perhaps even best of all: this was an orchestra at the height of its considerable powers. The range of dynamics was little short of miraculous - and all used to structural effect, too: the first climax of the Second Movement powerful enough, but allowing even greater strength in the second half (tears of joy chez ferney at this point) and the way thematic recurrences between the movements was pointed by similar dynamic colours was greatly impressive.

Tempi. Well, aside from the slowing down towards the end of the Scherzo, there was nothing in Petrenko's pacing that isn't justified by the score. Every piu lento, impetuoso, accelerando and allargando was followed. The Scherzo was taken at both the Presto marking and the metronome Elgar gives (each bar lasting just a little over half a second) - and how the orchestration glitters at this Mendelssohnian, quicksilver pace - and how devastating the drums pound when it's this relentless (and how well Petrenko managed to connect this to that Music's first appearance in the First Movement: the destruction of a Musical "personality" the composer had previously presented. The First Movement had the swagger and sweep of Elgar's own recording (and Boult's first recording with the BBCSO in the '40s) - a real Symphonic Allegro vivace full of genuine symphonic momentum and energy. Truly "noble" - lacking the pomposity of some misguided interpretations of "nobilmente" - with fire in its belly, and vim and vigour in its gait.

So why that slowing-down at the end of the Scherzo? I think what Petrenko had in mind was a preparation for the way he took the Coda of the final Movement (which itself referred back to the bow-barely-touching-the-string ppp that he'd coaxed from his players in earlier points in the Symphony. It didn't quite work, and wasn't necessary, but was the only interpretive failure in a great performance of a great symphony, by a great orchestra, led by someone who, on this performance at least, showed himself clearly to be a great conductor. It was a great privilege to have been alive to hear it.