Prom 18 - 30.07.14: BBC Phil, Tharaud / Mena

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Wednesday 30 July
7.30 p.m. – c. 10.05 p.m.
Royal Albert Hall

Sir Harrison Birtwistle: Night's Black Bird (first performance at The Proms)
Ravel: Concerto for Piano in D for the Left Hand

Mahler: Symphony No. 5 in C sharp minor

Alexandre Tharaud, piano
BBC Philharmonic
Juanjo Mena, conductor

The intense, contrasting moods of Mahler's Fifth Symphony make this one of the great orchestral showpieces, a journey from darkness to light. Before the interval, the BBC Philharmonic is joined by Alexandre Tharaud making his Proms debut in Ravel's virtuosic Left Hand Piano Concerto. The programme opens with the first of several works at this year's Proms celebrating Harrison Birtwistle's 80th birthday, his atmospheric Night's Black Bird.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Just out of interest, do any pianists play the Ravel with the occasional tweak with the right hand? I know I'd be tempted.

[Nick Armstrong]

Don't know the answer to that. All I know is that I'm looking forward immensely to going to this, with the same Ravel nut companion as to the Ravel G major Prom last year - a great sequel, with an even better second half than last time

[Serial_Apologist]

For people wary of Birtwistle, "Night's Black Bird" is a good place to have negative preconceptions pleasantly modified. Harrison Birtwistle influenced by Debussy? Well, I think so!

[Ferretfancy]

Just out of interest, do any pianists play the Ravel with the occasional tweak with the right hand? I know I'd be tempted.

I've seen many performances, and never spotted it, but what happens in the recording studio?

[Nick Armstrong]

Bumping this as am looking forward no end to being there, as a companion concert to last year's wonderful Ravel G major concert et al... http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...448#post322448 I'm sure M. Tharaud will give M. Thibaudet a run for his money...

... and I shall with the same guest, who remains a Ravel piano addict.. but whom I think I will be introducing to Mahler.

We're even in equivalent seats - at 10-past the conductor, rather than 10-to like last year.

Bring it on !!

[teamsaint]

"bring it on"?

Its not football or student politics , Cals !!

Have a great evening.

[Maclintick]

Just out of interest, do any pianists play the Ravel with the occasional tweak with the right hand? I know I'd be tempted.

Apparently Cortot did - Ravel was furious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMO3HT9T2Tg

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Starting soon.

[jayne lee wilson]

I started listening to the Mahler 5, thinking, I shouldn't really listen to this again yet... but I was gradually drawn in by the discipline and beauty of the playing, and the evidently thought-through nature of Mena's reading, so sleekly phrased, so carefully graded in its intensity, urgency and dynamics. "Exquisite adagietto", I thought, in aural winetaster mode - only to find myself in tearful devastation at Mena's emotionally and sonically amplified climax...
Then the finale, Mena setting a bouncy tempo giusto with no undermining reductions of pace, no discomfiting fudging of passagework or solo detail, and - certainly no disappointment at the power or control of the final climax!

Off to recover - and at least try to eat something...

[Nick Armstrong]

Just back from the hall after recovering and eating ... and yes, Jane, we thought it was a wonderful Mahler 5. With the possible exception of the word 'sleekly' which wouldn't have occurred to me, I would agree with everything you say - absorbing sense of pace and pulse throughout, with no loss of expressivity - urgent and intense is right. And yes, a ravishing Adagietto, again the tempo felt... giusto! We had extraordinary seats, right at the end of the horseshoe, just behind the back desk of cellos (we could read their music) and it was a mesmerising place to sit for that movement - and electrifying to feel one was in the 'engine room' for the rest of the piece - cellos in front of us, basses to the right and behind them the magnificent trumpets and trombones, and a direct line through to all the chattering and shrieking woodwind. Fascinating. The principal trumpet had an amazing evening, not a note out of place and a wonderful, slightly ripe, cornet-like tone - wonderful. The solo horn had a slightly less successful evening... but it didn't matter in the overall scheme of things.

The Ravel concerto was a rather different kettle of fish. It sounded under-rehearsed, and the soloist - like the orchestra - didn't sound 'inside' the music (he was reading off the music). Tharaud didn't have the bite, the 'grunt' necessary in the trenchant sections - the opening five minutes were disappointing. But he played beautifully in the more lyrical tender passages, and the orchestra, once it had settled down, did the motoric sections and climaxes very well. But overall - not the finished article.

I didn't feel strongly about the Birtwistle...

[PaulT]

I agree Caliban, the end of the horseshoe behind the back desk of cellos is a fun place to sit and we quite often choose this side stalls location for evening Proms if there are seats available.

Last time I heard Argerich play the Ravel left hand concerto she was also using a score. With a right hand free to turn the pages perhaps there is no incentive to commit to memory?

What a lovely Mahler 5 - Mena and The BBC Phil are a winning team.

[Hornspieler]

Just back from the hall after recovering and eating ... and yes, Jane, we thought it was a wonderful Mahler 5. With the possible exception of the word 'sleekly' which wouldn't have occurred to me, I would agree with everything you say - absorbing sense of pace and pulse throughout, with no loss of expressivity - urgent and intense is right. And yes, a ravishing Adagietto, again the tempo felt... giusto! We had extraordinary seats, right at the end of the horseshoe, just behind the back desk of cellos (we could read their music) and it was a mesmerising place to sit for that movement - and electrifying to feel one was in the 'engine room' for the rest of the piece - cellos in front of us, basses to the right and behind them the magnificent trumpets and trombones, and a direct line through to all the chattering and shrieking woodwind. Fascinating. The principal trumpet had an amazing evening, not a note out of place and a wonderful, slightly ripe, cornet-like tone - wonderful. The solo horn had a slightly less successful evening... but it didn't matter in the overall scheme of things.

...

You are not comparing like with like, Cali. Let me explain by citing another obligato horn solo - Bach's B minor Mass.

Coincidentally, in the same key. Also, coincidentally the same problem for the solo horn player.

In the Bach Mass, the horn player has to wait until Movement X (The Quoniam) before he is able to play a note. When he does come in, there is nowhere to hide that opening flourish, he is on his own, starting with an octave leap into the upper register.
The trick which I learned from one of my senior mentors, was to sit near to the bassoons and quietly join in with them to keep the instrument warm and the lips functioning.

The Mahler symphony poses an even greater problem.

The first movement is scored for six horns. Horns 1,3 and 5 play in the upper register. Horns 2,4 and 6 in the lower register.

But there is a separate part written for the solo obligato, and here is the problem.
The second movement is scored only for 4 horns. Should our soloist play one of those four parts? Otherwise, he is going to have to sit there thinking about the task ahead during that long second movement. Then he has to leave his chair and move to where the conductor wishes him to stand, hope that the copy has not fallen off the music stand and start that opening flourish with a feeling of stark nakedness.

Contrast this situation with that of our trumpet soloist, who is sitting amongst his colleagues, has had a little blow to warm up his trumpet before the Leader comes on stage, and start his marathon in the lower register.

Yes. The trumpet playing was magnificent, the young horn player (they're all young to me these days) did fluff a couple of notes, but there, but for the Grace of God ... etc.

I will be interested to see how the platform settings were arranged when the concert is televised and who played what and where.

Yes. It was a fine Mahler.

I missed hearing the first part of the concert. I wonder why that was?

HS

[amateur51]

Just back from the hall after recovering and eating ... and yes, Jane, we thought it was a wonderful Mahler 5. With the possible exception of the word 'sleekly' which wouldn't have occurred to me, I would agree with everything you say - absorbing sense of pace and pulse throughout, with no loss of expressivity - urgent and intense is right. And yes, a ravishing Adagietto, again the tempo felt... giusto! We had extraordinary seats, right at the end of the horseshoe, just behind the back desk of cellos (we could read their music) and it was a mesmerising place to sit for that movement - and electrifying to feel one was in the 'engine room' for the rest of the piece - cellos in front of us, basses to the right and behind them the magnificent trumpets and trombones, and a direct line through to all the chattering and shrieking woodwind. Fascinating. The principal trumpet had an amazing evening, not a note out of place and a wonderful, slightly ripe, cornet-like tone - wonderful. The solo horn had a slightly less successful evening... but it didn't matter in the overall scheme of things.

The Ravel concerto was a rather different kettle of fish. It sounded under-rehearsed, and the soloist - like the orchestra - didn't sound 'inside' the music (he was reading off the music). Tharaud didn't have the bite, the 'grunt' necessary in the trenchant sections - the opening five minutes were disappointing. But he played beautifully in the more lyrical tender passages, and the orchestra, once it had settled down, did the motoric sections and climaxes very well. But overall - not the finished article.

I didn't feel strongly about the Birtwistle...

Lovely review Cali - you are becoming the Forum's very own Lyse Doucet!

Good of you to leave the goal open-wide for a spot of Birtwistle-bashing - Hornspieler got so excited he missed the sitter & shot over the bar, sadly

[Nick Armstrong]

the young horn player (they're all young to me these days) did fluff a couple of notes, but there, but for the Grace of God ... etc.

I will be interested to see how the platform settings were arranged when the concert is televised and who played what and where.

Agreed!! (I did say just slightly less successful... I stand by it ! And I'm sure that's how he felt..)

He was sitting on the left of his section (as he would have perceived it - on the extreme right of the section, viewed from the audience). There was no standing up for the obbligato part, or anything like that.

The trumpeter was indeed nestled in the middle of his gang, minders all around him!

I missed hearing the first part of the concert. I wonder why that was?

HS

I don't know, do tell, HS !!