Prom 2 - 19.07.14: China PO, Zhang / Balsom / Long Yu

[EdgeleyRob]

This is a beautiful sentence, Bbm.

I haven't the faintest idea what it means.

I think what Bbm is trying to say is that he is surprised that the wind instruments are not more so,or strings ?

[jean]

I suspect this is the other way round: if you are a solo pianist, you don’t need any orchestra (to earn a living or become famous).

But if you are an orchestra - or trying to put one together - you will suffer if all the most talented players aspire to be concert pianists.

It was because someone referred to mediocre orchestral playing that I mentioned what the programme had had to say on the subject.

[doversoul1]

But if you are an orchestra - or trying to put one together - you will suffer if all the most talented players aspire to be concert pianists.

It was because someone referred to mediocre orchestral playing that I mentioned what the programme had had to say on the subject.

Yes, the documentary was doing its best to focus on the significance of orchestra on modern Chinese culture / society but the reality is, I suspect, most parents of those millions of aspiring pianists are not in the least interested in that sort of thing. Their concern is their children’s future or future job to be more precise. If this leads to those millions of children becoming interested in music, that is obviously a good thing but that, I think, is quite a different subject matter.

Didn’t someone say in the programme that if a child has to be working hard at something, music is better than sport because you (the child) don’t get dirty or cut your knee, or something to that effect. My memory is a bit rusty but mandarins are historically completely classless. If you are able and work hard, you will be able to climb up the bureaucratic system. I imagine this is still very much the base of Chinese culture.

[Hornspieler]

It's interesting that in China the piano so far exceeds other instruments in popularity.

As someone said in the documentary: "You don't need a hundred solo pianists to make an orchestra".

In our primary schools, most children are introduced to making music with the recorder.

A four year old can learn to play a tune on the piano in five minutes.
With a recorder, it takes only a little longer, but the whole class can take part in a recorder band in a matter of only a few group lessons.
It takes an age for the young string player even to be able to produce a decent sound on a school issue (probably Chinese made) violin.

So our own schoolchildren associate music making with blowing something or hitting something (Percussion bands)

As they mature, those who are keen on continuing want to play the flute, or the clarinet or (the more ambitious) the oboe or bassoon when the hands have grown large enough.
The result is that in our country, there is a surfeit of highly accomplished wind players seeking those very few positions in an orchestra. So they take up teaching and produce even more highly accomplished wind players.

Look at any of the European and American orchestras and you will spot a lot of Oriental string players.

The Chinese have adopted the group teaching method for string instruments and it was apparent to me, watching the performance of Romeo and Juliet that those frantic string passages were played as one - as if we were watching the Leader and fifty reflections
No shortage of string players there, then, but taught by rote and playing like automatons on the night.

The woodwind were more expressive, although the clarinets looked a little tentative at times.

Brass players are to be found even in the darkest parts of Africa and it is no surprise that those playing on the night were as competent as one would wish for.

I think it was a brave attempt to import this orchestra into the promenade concerts, but the choice of programme was only likely to expose their weaknesses as well as their achievements.

HS

PS I can't help thinking that the orchestra's Leader would make a far better job of conducting than that Military Band baton waver.

[Hornspieler]

Strongly reminiscent of Captain Mainwaring's line

"I was wondering when somone was going to spot that Wilson"

Well done, Private Amstrad! I was waiting for someone to spot that.

HS

[bluestateprommer]

From Ferretfancy's earlier comment about "most of the string instruments looked very new", that caught what I found curious about the sound of the China Phil. It sounded a bit steely and anonymous to my ears, perhaps just because the instruments haven't really "aged" or been "broken in", through long years of playing. Technically, they were good, to be sure, but not evincing very striking individual personality in terms of a sonic style. Haochen Zhang threatened to start with a bit much of a barnstromer approach, to my ears, in the Liszt, but he settled down pretty promptly after that and I rather liked him and the orchestra in Liszt 1 as I got into it. The trumpet concertante work for Alison Balsom was pleasant to listen to, kind of "modern music for people who don't like modern music". The warhorses were all right, but nothing for the ages, as seems to be the consensus here.

Look at any of the European and American orchestras and you will spot a lot of Oriental string players......

PS I can't help thinking that the orchestra's Leader would make a far better job of conducting than that Military Band baton waver.

Indeed, at least from seeing several US orchestras over the last several years, spot on about the increased number of Asian-American (or just plain Asian, actually born there) musicians in the string sections especially.

On HS's last point, there is a blistering assessment of Long Yu (in general, not from Prom 2 as such), as follows:

http://davidnice.blogspot.com/2014/07/stritch-in-time.html

"On a less heinous scale, Long Yu, the conductor of last night's China Philharmonic Prom which I didn't hear, is a party apparatchik who even if he were a decent conductor already holds more prominent posts than is healthy for a man in his position. That he's atrociously poor I can attest from the worst conducted performance I've ever heard, a spectacularly testudinal Elgar Cockaigne Overture with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. I have it from the horse's mouth that the players themselves stopped the whole thing falling apart as early as the tenuto in the second full bar. The orchestra petitioned their general manager to make sure they never worked with him again, but he said he couldn't guarantee it where big bucks from China were concerned."

However, I will acknowledge that Long Yu was very charming in his pre-encore speech to the RAH, and both encores came off very nicely indeed. Likewise, the young cellist quoted at the start of the concert also sounded quite touching and sincere in being thrilled to play The Proms. (And about the 2nd encore; of course, Charles Ives (and by proxy William Schuman) got there first with amusing concert hall variations on "God Save the Queen" (UK) / "America" (US).)

[Hornspieler]

From Ferretfancy's earlier comment about "most of the string instruments looked very new", that caught what I found curious about the sound of the China Phil. It sounded a bit steely and anonymous to my ears, perhaps just because the instruments haven't really "aged" or been "broken in", through long years of playing. Technically, they were good, to be sure, but not evincing very striking individual personality in terms of a sonic style. Haochen Zhang threatened to start with a bit much of a barnstromer approach, to my ears, in the Liszt, but he settled down pretty promptly after that and I rather liked him and the orchestra in Liszt 1 as I got into it. The trumpet concertante work for Alison Balsom was pleasant to listen to, kind of "modern music for people who don't like modern music". The warhorses were all right, but nothing for the ages, as seems to be the consensus here.

Excellent revue and explanation bluestateprommer.

Just to wind up this particular thread, may I make it quite clear that the China Philharmonic Orchestra has no connection with (or similarity to) that excellent orchestra which is based in Dresden

HS

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Excellent revue and explanation bluestateprommer.

Just to wind up this particular thread, may I make it quite clear that the China Philharmonic Orchestra has no connection with (or similarity to) that excellent orchestra which is based in Dresden

HS

As featured in "Of Meissen Men"?

[Hornspieler]

As featured in "Of Meissen Men"?

HS