Prom 2 - 19.07.14: China PO, Zhang / Balsom / Long Yu

[jean]

the televised China Philharmonic prom will be broadcast on BBC4 Sunday 27th July 7pm........... followed, I notice, by a documentary about classical music in China

The documentary was fascinating.

[Hornspieler]

Yes - it has no doubt been chosen for its wide appeal to general audiences visiting London at the weekend. It doesn't greatly appeal to me - the Tchaikovsky is the only piece that I have any affection for (and the Elgar would be a welcome "lollypop"-type encore). The Liszt and Ravel's orchestral reduction of Mussorgsky's Piano masterpiece will keep me away from this Prom - although it is obviously good for others perhaps less familiar with the repertoire to have the opportunity to discover whether they find the overall programme as dire as I do.

I'm with you all the way, FHG.

A programme to attract everyone and satisfy no one.

I picked up a bit of last night's TV (the Liszt piano concerto) and decided to go back to my Count Basie video from the Jazz Icons series on Sky Arts2.

In any case, I am totally against orchestral arrangements of other composer's solo or chamber music and had a bellyful of them with Silvestri (Max Reger's "Variations on a Theme of ... etc. are a good example)

HS

[Hornspieler]

Oh dear Oh dear!

I just switched on my TV and discovered that my TivO box had faithfully followed its instructions to record all the BBC Proms TV showings, which, of course, included the China PO prom.

So, skipping past Elgar, I decided to sample a Tchaikovsky Chow Mein. More like a Chop Suey as it turned out.

Looking at the conductor, I was reminded of some of the Military Bandmasters that I encountered in the past:

"Left, Right! Left, Right! Keep up there in the woodwind!"

Well, the violins got within about a double-dotted crotchet, but the rest fell woefully behind.

At least the battle scene sounded authentic, (I think the brass and percussion* could claim the final victory; but what about that lovely romantic tune?

Sounded to me like a representation of a nagging toothache.

* Unfortunate that the tuba and timpanist were about a quarter tone apart in thos final bars. I think the tuba was the culprit, sounding very sharp, but the "Peoples' Democratic" tuning throughout the piece did not help us to reach a conclusion"

The presentation was just about up to the Beeb's usual low standard, but the lady gained my sympathy for having to be there in the first place.

I'm going to avoid all contact with "Pictures" but might try the trumpet piece later when I've recovered from the trauma.

HS

[amateur51]

Oh dear Oh dear!

I just switched on my TV and discovered that my TivO box had faithfully followed its instructions to record all the BBC Proms TV showings, which, of course, included the China PO prom.

So, skipping past Elgar, I decided to sample a Tchaikovsky Chow Mein. More like a Chop Suey as it turned out.

Looking at the conductor, I was reminded of some of the Military Bandmasters that I encountered in the past:

"Left, Right! Left, Right! Keep up there in the woodwind!"

Well, the violins got within about a double-dotted crotchet, but the rest fell woefully behind.

At least the battle scene sounded authentic, (I think the brass and percussion* could claim the final victory; but what about that lovely romantic tune?

Sounded to me like a representation of a nagging toothache.

* Unfortunate that the tuba and timpanist were about a quarter tone apart in thos final bars. I think the tuba was the culprit, sounding very sharp, but the "Peoples' Democratic" tuning throughout the piece did not help us to reach a conclusion"

The presentation was just about up to the Beeb's usual low standard, but the lady gained my sympathy for having to be there in the first place.

I'm going to avoid all contact with "Pictures" but might try the trumpet piece later when I've recovered from the trauma.

HS

Grand to see a typical Bournemouth welcome for an orchestra visiting the Proms for the first time. Those references to Chop suey and Chow mein were beyond nagging toothache

[jean]

...Those references to Chop suey and Chow mein...

Chow mein is a (more or less) authentic Chinese dish.

Chop suey is a not-at-all authentic Chinese-style adaptation to Western tastes.

So (the message seems to be) why don't the Chinese stick to what they know how to to do rather than provide us with what they think we want?

Only that's not necessarily what the orchestra were doing here.

Watch the documentary for a very interesting account of the Chinese love affair with Western music.

[Nick Armstrong]

The Liszt and Ravel's orchestral reduction of Mussorgsky's Piano masterpiece will keep me away from this Prom - although it is obviously good for others perhaps less familiar with the repertoire to have the opportunity to discover whether they find the overall programme as dire as I do.

Agreed, it's the programme from hell for me.

Still my trusty PVR recorded it, like HS's, as part of the series, so I listened to the opening Elgar... Stilted and subtly yet significantly not right, couldn't put my finger on why.

I decided to sample a Tchaikovsky Chow Mein. More like a Chop Suey as it turned out.

... ah that must be it - lacking the idiomatic quality of the Fish'n'Chips Elgar of the BSO!

I will never know how the Chinese performances compared with the Dropped-99-Covered-In-Sand Liszt and Kiss-Me-Quick-Candyfloss Tchaikovsky of our best coastal orchestras, because I deleted the recording!

[Hornspieler]

Chow mein is a (more or less) authentic Chinese dish.

Chop suey is a not-at-all authentic Chinese-style adaptation to Western tastes.

So (the message seems to be) why don't the Chinese stick to what they know how to to do rather than provide us with what they think we want?

Only that's not necessarily what the orchestra were doing here.

I'm glad that you picked that up, Jean.

I was afraid that my simile was perhaps too subtle for some of our readers (Q.V.)

Watch the documentary for a very interesting account of the Chinese love affair with Western music.

Thanks. I will.


HS

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I was afraid that my simile was perhaps too subtle for some of our readers.

Or perhaps some of us are just foo young?

(Hope that doesn't leave me with egg on my face.)

[amateur51]

I'm glad that you picked that up, Jean.

I was afraid that my simile was perhaps too subtle for some of our readers (Q.V.)

Strongly reminiscent of Captain Mainwaring's line

"I was wondering when somone was going to spot that Wilson"

[pastoralguy]

I enjoyed this concert on the car radio but was much less impressed last night on the tv. Soon mediocre playing, I thought, but one has to give them credit for trying. You can't form an orchestral tradition such as the Berlin Phil, Vienna Phil or RSNO overnight.

Be interesting to hear them in twenty years time.

[jean]

It's interesting that in China the piano so far exceeds other instruments in popularity.

As someone said in the documentary: "You don't need a hundred solo pianists to make an orchestra".

[jean]

You can't form an orchestral tradition such as the Berlin Phil, Vienna Phil or RSNO overnight.

They've been getting plenty of help from us.

[BBMmk2]

I am surprised that the wind instruments are not more so, or strings?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am surprised that the wind instruments are not more so, or strings?

This is a beautiful sentence, Bbm.

I haven't the faintest idea what it means.

[doversoul1]

It's interesting that in China the piano so far exceeds other instruments in popularity.

It’s probably much the same reason as the fact that traditionally, most children’s music education begins with the piano in the West.

"You don't need a hundred solo pianists to make an orchestra".

I suspect this is the other way round: if you are a solo pianist, you don’t need any orchestra (to earn a living or become famous).

Being cynical aside (I’ve seen it, more or less, all in Japan), there must be something in Western classical music (or at least certain repertoire) that is appealing to the people beyond its original culture.