Prom 1 - 18.07.14: The First Night - Elgar: The Kingdom, BBC SO / A. Davis

[gradus]

Forgot to mention how much I enjoyed the performance especially the soloists. After hearing the deeply moving The Sun Goeth Down especially, I echo the regrets of many Elgarians that Ed. E. did not turn his hand to opera.

[ardcarp]

There was an apology by a BBC2 continuity announcer afterwards 'to some who experienced sound problems'. Maybe this was regional.

I don't see The Kingdom (as opposed to Gerontius) as especially Catholic or Anglo-Catholic...just full of religiosity.

[Cockney Sparrow]

The work is a great favourite of mine, such that I went to the performance (time to redress the balance in this thread for all those moved to tell us they had to switch off?).
I thought Davis produced a fine performance, one to remember. The choruses were well within their comfort margin and I could tell there were welsh tenors in quantity! They produced finely graded sounds and responded completely to Davis. Andrew Staples (performing Ottavio, Don G at Salzburg) was truly committed and fully delivered the part. Catherine Wyn Rogers is at the top of her game, came over fully. Erin Wall - up to the part (but to my taste, a bit blowsy - I prefer Margaret Price /Isobel Baillie approach - Susan Gritton at the moment if she is still on form).
The weak link was Christopher Purves - either he had vocal trouble and / or he took on a part a little too large (I was ging to say heroic?) to deliver. I presume that came over in the broadcast.

All in all, however, a memorable evening and a reason to be thankful for a BBC that can include it in a season. As Oramo conducted the Elgar Oratorios at Birmingham, perhaps we can look forward to hearing it again, some years in the future.....

Left the Hall pretty sharp'ish and made South Ken just as the raindrops started,so many would have been caught but we'd heard no thunder in the hall.

(Oh - and no doubt in the cause of the all important profit centre of bars and catering, people had plastic (pint?) glasses in the stalls (although not that many).

[VodkaDilc]

There is a severe storm approaching in the vicinity as I write, so the crackling could be atmospherics. The promenaders are going to emerge to a waterfall if I'm not mistaken, poor things!

A few spots while walking to S Ken station, but I didn't see any more rain on the journey home. A good sturdy performance; I've recorded BBC2, so I hope the poor sound quality is not too distracting. I do wonder whether there should have been an interval with the hall temperature being as it was. Twenty minutes of fresh air would have made the second half more enjoyable.

[Nachtigall]

I agree about the poor sound quality. I couldn't believe how distant and feeble the BBC2 sound was fed via satellite through my AV receiver and hi-fi speakers. I switched to the stereo DAB broadcast but didn't find that significantly more satisfying. However, unless my ears deceived me, the sound did seem to improve somewhat in the latter part of the performance, but I still thought there were problems of balance. I like the work but wasn't bowled over by the performance, at least as it came across in the broadcast. I've recorded it and will listen again to see whether my view of it alters. Perhaps everyone, including the sound engineers, was feeling the heat.

[visualnickmos]

I tried. I really did. But I'm afraid Elgar in Catholic mode turns my stomach over and I had to switch off.

I listened to large chunks, but I just didn't like it; yep - too 'churchy' and it left me cold.

[Pabmusic]

...I don't see The Kingdom (as opposed to Gerontius) as especially Catholic or Anglo-Catholic...just full of religiosity.

Yes, The Apostles and The Kingdom (and no doubt The Last Judgement, had it been written) were more for C of E tastes. Gerontius was the only large-scale RC work Elgar wrote. At the time he wrote The Kingdom (to quote Michael Kennedy) "Elgar's religious views undergoing a change from orthodox Catholicism (of a kind) to some kind of humanism".

It's a little difficult to resist the thought that Elgar enjoyed assembling the librettos as much as composing the music.

[ardcarp]

Anyone for Tolhurst's "Ruth"

Tell us more, Stan.

I thought Davis produced a fine performance, one to remember. The choruses were well within their comfort margin and I could tell there were welsh tenors in quantity! They produced finely graded sounds and responded completely to Davis. Andrew Staples (performing Ottavio, Don G at Salzburg) was truly committed and fully delivered the part. Catherine Wyn Rogers is at the top of her game, came over fully. Erin Wall - up to the part (but to my taste, a bit blowsy - I prefer Margaret Price /Isobel Baillie approach - Susan Gritton at the moment if she is still on form).
The weak link was Christopher Purves - either he had vocal trouble and / or he took on a part a little too large (I was ging to say heroic?) to deliver. I presume that came over in the broadcast.

Good to hear from someone [sweltering] in thr Hall. Everything you say came over on the broadcast. I think CP's voice was just over-used...no doubt he'd been bawling away all afternoon. I do sympathise, and there was a pleasant underlying voice quality there. As far as balance was concerned, the voices (soloists and chorus) were well 'forward' on R3...in fact when the choir first came in they were nearly in my sitting room. I think a few knobs were twiddled, because it was better after a few minutes. I have to admit that when I switched over to BBC2, my attention [when it didn't wander] was more on the spectacle.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I was looking forward to this - I know The Kingdom quite well (I sang in a performance in 1984) but have never really warmed to the whole work. Sadly last night confirmed my general impression - some marvellous moments, (and the opening Prelude of the performance had me thinking "This is it!") but these always seem to fizzle out and there is a huge amount of material that just seems to me to meander. With the very best will in the world, like ardie, I found my attention wandering again and again to the spectacle (all that persperation for so small a reward!) and I had to keep jolting myself back to concentrate on the Music. My loss - I don't say all this with any glee (I love so much Elgar - and that includes quite a bit of The Kingdom) but with genuine regret.

[Hornspieler]

I am not a major fan of Elgar's gargantuan choral works and skipped this . Would much rather have had The Creation by a great composer without one work at the Proms !!!

HS

[Pabmusic]

I was looking forward to this - I know The Kingdom quite well (I sang in a performance in 1984) but have never really warmed to the whole work. Sadly last night confirmed my general impression - some marvellous moments, (and the opening Prelude of the performance had me thinking "This is it!") but these always seem to fizzle out and there is a huge amount of material that just seems to me to meander. With the very best will in the world, like ardie, I found my attention wandering again and again to the spectacle (all that persperation for so small a reward!) and I had to keep jolting myself back to concentrate on the Music. My loss - I don't say all this with any glee (I love so much Elgar - and that includes quite a bit of The Kingdom) but with genuine regret.

How I agree, Ferney. I am one of the Greater Elgarians (as, I suspect, are you) but I have to agree that The Kingdom and The Apostles are fine works with very great moments. Who was it who said Wagner had "great moments but dull quarter hours"? Rossini? Well…


Elgar's heart just wasn't in it. It's interesting (to me, anyway) just how much Elgar's greatness depends on momentary quirks of his human frailty.

[P. G. Tipps]

I tried. I really did. But I'm afraid Elgar in Catholic mode turns my stomach over and I had to switch off.

How truly distressing ...

Does listening to Wagner in Pagan mode or Bach in Protestant mode turm your stomach over and cause you to switch off as well?

[Honoured Guest]

I don't know about the Elgar, But in general I'd comment that Catholicism is highly dogmatic and so alienating to outsiders (and to sentient insiders) whereas Protestantism and paganism are much more human and so tolerable to all sorts of people.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I suppose this is a forum where all, well most views arising can be, and are, expressed - including a general vote on the work, the opinion of those who care to post.

If the association with the Catholic church (or the families of the Italian city states, or any historical association - of course taking in Richard Wagner) makes one stomach's turn, then there is plenty of music to cause members of this forum to switch off (and then post and tell us about it).

However, keeping this in proportion, I'll continue with my usual policy of quickly passing over posts that cast a vote (or, those that don't say very much, or just pick fights with usual suspects of known opinion, etc, etc.....)

[VodkaDilc]

I tried. I really did. But I'm afraid Elgar in Catholic mode turns my stomach over and I had to switch off.

I can see that Gerontius is a Catholic work, but The Kingdom (like The Apostles) strikes me as traditional C of E/Sunday School stuff.