Prom 1 - 18.07.14: The First Night - Elgar: The Kingdom, BBC SO / A. Davis

[Honoured Guest]

Are you retired, HG?

Yes! But last night I was too buzzing with adrenalin to sleep after going to the theatre to see Roberto Zucco at Chapter, Cardiff.

Worth mentioning on this forum is the live choral music composed by Gareth Evans and thrillingly sung by an eight-voice choir led by Sara Terrell.

The singers frame the space, surrounding and enveloping the audience and the action in their sound.

This show immerses the audience in the world of and around Roberto Zucco, serial killer.

Highly recommended! Runs until Sat 19 July (except Sun 13 July).

http://www.chapter.org/roberto-zucco

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Getting back to The Kingdom…

I first heard it conducted either by Barbirolli or Maurice Handford in the Free Trade Hall, Manchester in the late 1960s. The programme notes were of a sort that we never see now - full of musical quotations, helping the listener to follow the motifs. I returned home full of enthusiasm for a work which had never been recorded. A year or so later, my parents took me to London, where I heard Margaret Price for the first time. In the programme notes, it listed her recordings, including a future one of Elgar's "The Kingdom". My mother said to me:
"If you get into university, I'll buy it for you."

She was as good as her word.

Boult's recording remains my favourite by a wide margin. But I have high expectations of Sir Andrew's performance.

[mercia]

The present scheduling gives prominence on BBC2 to both Sport and Music.

equal prominence would you say? on the day in question there will be eleven hours of live golf (as far as I can see duplicated on at least one red button channel) followed by one hour 45 minutes of music

Having been unable to find BBC4 for the First Night of the Proms, will the general public be able to find it for subsequent televised proms ?

[Honoured Guest]

equal prominence would you say? on the day in question there will be eleven hours of live golf (as far as I can see duplicated on at least one red button channel) followed by one hour 45 minutes of music

The Open is the major UK golf event of the year and on this day there is full live coverage on BBC2 of the first of the four days' play. Usually, the red button coverage is of the 18th hole, showing the day's final hole and end-of-day's play score for every competitor, while the BBC2 coverage is of the entire course. I think there has in the past been "conductor cam" Proms coverage online (not sure if ever on the red button).

On this day there is similarly full coverage on BBC2 of the First Night of the Proms, deferred by a few minutes because the channel can't broadcast two programmes at the same time.

Having been unable to find BBC4 for the First Night of the Proms, will the general public be able to find it for subsequent televised proms ?

I suspect you're feigning a misunderstanding of my point, but shall reply politely nevertheless. The point is not that people are "unable to find" BBC4. It is that a much greater number of casual tv viewers will stumble across any programme on BBC2 than on BBC4. It's also a traditional way of indicating the status which the BBC gives to the Proms season. I assume that this First Night programme will take care to trail the pattern of tv coverage for the rest of the season, for the benefit of any few of those casual viewers whose interest may be sparked in the Proms season by this lengthy slab of choral Elgar. Personally, I've noted this programme in advance and will not be watching...

[mercia]

I've added up all the live golf coverage for the four days over BBC1,2 and 2 x red button channels and make it approximately 132 hours not including highlights programmes. Lucky golf fans is all I can say. Prominent without a doubt. (I think Thursday 17th is the first day). Not sure of the relevancy of "conductor cam". It was an interesting experiment but (in my opinion) ultimately annoying to have someone talking right through a performance. But speaking of the past, we used to have simultaneous radio/TV broadcasts, I don't see why it can't still be done.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I suspect you're feigning a misunderstanding of my point, but shall reply politely nevertheless. The point is not that people are "unable to find" BBC4. It is that a much greater number of casual tv viewers will stumble across any programme on BBC2 than on BBC4.

Nowadays habits have changed. It's so easy to channel-hop, and that is exactly what "casual" viewers do, with no special regard for the 5 channels of the analogue era. That's gone for ever and today's audiences knows.

[Barbirollians]

Nowadays habits have changed. It's so easy to channel-hop, and that is exactly what "casual" viewers do, with no special regard for the 5 channels of the analogue era. That's gone for ever and today's audiences knows.

Logic supports your analysis - the ratings figures don't.

I shall give this a miss can't abide the bumptious Davis and cannot imagine anyone can top the Elder recording .

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I don't have the Elder recording. I was at the actual performance, which was good, but not in the same league as the two earlier Hallé performances I've heard (and certainly not as good as the Boult. Maybe I should give it another chance.

Re Sir Andrew Davis, he's a fine Elgarian, however irritating some may find him. He won't be "bumptious" on Radio 3.

[Petrushka]

Logic supports your analysis - the ratings figures don't.

I shall give this a miss can't abide the bumptious Davis and cannot imagine anyone can top the Elder recording .

Whatever you think of Sir Andrew Davis, he is always good in these big choral works. Anyway, I'll be there for, not just my first live The Kingdom but the first time I've heard the work at all.

Incidentally, those with long memories may recall when the First Night live broadcast (Mahler 2, 1990) was delayed by 15 minutes due to the golf over-run. This delay meant that a specially recorded tribute to Sir John Pritchard, in whose memory this performance was given, was never shown.

[Honoured Guest]

I've added up all the live golf coverage for the four days over BBC1,2 and 2 x red button channels and make it approximately 132 hours not including highlights programmes. Lucky golf fans is all I can say. Prominent without a doubt. (I think Thursday 17th is the first day). Not sure of the relevancy of "conductor cam". It was an interesting experiment but (in my opinion) ultimately annoying to have someone talking right through a performance. But speaking of the past, we used to have simultaneous radio/TV broadcasts, I don't see why it can't still be done.

The relevance of "conductor cam" is that it ran at the same time as normal tv coverage, like the red-button 18th hole runs at the same time as the normal tv golf coverage and which you were complaining about.

Simultaneous radio and tv broadcasts are now impossible with digital transmission of programmes because every receiving tv and radio model takes a different amount of time to decode the signal, so every receiver experiences a delay from transmission to reception and they are all out of sync with each other. You can see this for yourself by listening to the same radio channel on an analogue radio, a digital radio and a digital tv.

[Honoured Guest]

Nowadays habits have changed. It's so easy to channel-hop, and that is exactly what "casual" viewers do, with no special regard for the 5 channels of the analogue era. That's gone for ever and today's audiences knows.

I shall have to take your word that you personally channel hop at random between every available channel, although I find it incredible that you have absolutely no personal channel preferences.

You cannot know that everyone else has the same perverse practice as you: I, for one, do not. The evidence of ratings disproves your belief because programmes achieve markedly higher viewer numbers when they are shown on BBC2 than on BBC4, or on BBC1 than on BBC3.

Many "casual" viewers have a first choice channel which they switch on, and then a second choice channel which they next switch to when they are bored, and so on. Or they always watch the News, for example, on one channel and then stick with whatever follows it until they're bored.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Whatever you think of Sir Andrew Davis, he is always good in these big choral works. Anyway, I'll be there for, not just my first live The Kingdom but the first time I've heard the work at all.

Enjoy it, Petrushka. I wish I could be there.

[VodkaDilc]

Enjoy it, Petrushka. I wish I could be there.

I am looking forward to being there. My first First Night since, I think, 1971, when I heard a Mahler Symphony (No 2?) in the gallery.

[mercia]

the Last Night of the Proms appears, on the face of it, to go out simultaneously on radio and TV but I shall happily concede that in reality it does not

[Honoured Guest]

the Last Night of the Proms appears, on the face of it, to go out simultaneously on radio and TV but I shall happily concede that in reality it does not

I misunderstood your earlier post. I thought you were talking about SB (simultaneous broadcasts) back in the '80s when operas were shown on tv and radio and we watched the tv with its sound muted and listened to the radio. You can't do that any more because of the variable digital delay, even when a live programme is being transmitted on tv and radio, as with the Last Night of the Proms, or with live sports coverage! Watching tv Wimbledon and listening to Wimbledon radio, my radio was nearly two returns ahead of my tv.